Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:02 pmPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:55 pm| heman wrote: |
| Protestants are in the habit of believing that the Reformation abolished all the errors of Rome, and gave us the truth in its purity.
Why should they hold this conclusion? |
| Revelation 3:7-13 |
| 7And write unto the angel of Philadelphia: This sayth he that is holy and true, which hath the key of David: which openeth and no man shuteth, and shuteth and no man openeth. 8I know your works. Behold I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it, for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my sayings: and hast not denied my name. 9Behold. I make them of the congregation of Sathan, which call themselves jews and are not, but do lie. Behold. I will make them that they shall come and worship before thy feet: and shall know that I have loved thee. 10Because thou hast kept the words of my patience, I will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which will come upon all the world, to tempt them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold I come shortly. Hold that which thou hast, that no man take away thy crown. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out. And I will write upon him, the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name. 13Let him that hath ears, hear what the spirit saith unto the congregations. |
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| 2Co 5:20 Now then are we messengers in the room of Christ: even as though God did beseech you thorow us: (MC: exhorted by us) So pray we you (MC: We beseek you now therefore) in Christ's stead, that ye be at one with God:
2Co 5:21 for he hath made him to be sin for us, which knew no sin, that we by his means should be that righteousness which before God is allowed. (aloved) |
| 2 Corinthians 12:19-20 |
| 19Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves? we speak in Christ in the sight of God. But we do all things dearly beloved for your edifying. 20For I fear lest it come to pass, that when I come, I shall not find you such as I would: and I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: I fear lest there be found among you lawing, envying, wrath, strife, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, and debate. |
| Heman wrote: |
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Were the reformers inspired? |
| 2 Timothy 2:19 |
| But the sure ground of God remaineth, and hath this seal: the Lord knoweth them that are his, and let every man that calleth on the name of Christ, depart from iniquity. |
| Heman wrote: |
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Were Luther, Calvin, John Knox, Wycliffe, and other energetic men who brought about the change in question infallible? |
| Heman wrote: |
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If they were so, there is an end to the controversy: but no one will take a position that is competent to form an opinion on the subject. If the Reformers were not inspired and infallible, is it not right and rational to set the Bible above them, and to try their work by the only standard test which can be applied in our day? |
| Heman wrote: |
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Consider this question: Was it likely the Reformers should at once, and in every particular, emancipate themselves from the spiritual bondage of Romaic tradition? |
| Heman wrote: |
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It was a very partial Reformation, as far as doctrinal rectification was concerned - that but a very small part of the truth has been presented, and that many of the greatest heresies of the Church of Rome were retained, and continue to be the groundwork of the Protestant Church. The position was not favorable to the exercise of independent judgment. Men so trained were prone to acquiesce in what they were brought up to, from the mere force of habit and interest, sanctioned and strengthened no doubt by the belief that it was, and must of necessity be, true. Moreover, this is the position of the clergy of the present day. Let them emancipate themselves from the idea that theoretical religion is the business of the pulpit. Let them realize that it is their duty to go to the Bible for themselves. "How do we interpret the Bible?" |
| Isaiah 8:20-22 |
| 20If any man want light, let him look upon the law and the testimony whether they speak not after this meaning. 21If he do not this he stumbleth and suffereth hunger. And if he suffer hunger, he is out of patience, and blasphemeth his king and his God. Then looketh he upward, and downward to the earth, 22and behold, there is trouble and darkness vexation is round about him, and the cloud of error. And out of such adversity, shall he not escape. |
| Isaiah 28:10-13 |
| 10Command that may be commanded, bid that may be bidden, forbid that may be forbidden, keep back that may be kept back, here a little, there a little. 11And therefore the LORD also shall speak with lisping lips and with a strange language unto this people, to whom he spake afore of this manner: 12This shall bring rest, if one refresh the weary, yea this shall bring rest. But they had no will to hear. 13And therefore the LORD shall answer their stubborness. (Command that may be commanded, bid that may be bidden, forbid that may be forbidden, keep back that may be kept back, here a little, there a little.) That they may go forth, fall backward, be bruised, snared, and taken. |
| Heman wrote: |
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"The Scriptures are able to make thee wise unto salvation" (II Tim. 3:15). What is the result of this effect? There is only one answer: by the language, it employs. It is supposed and assumed that the Bible is not explicit by the ordinary rules of speech, but it is in a language used in an unnatural sense, that has to be interpreted and rendered in a skilled manner. "The Bible, as a written revelation from God, must be written in language capable of being understood by those to whom it is sent." To this abstract proposition, there is no doubt he would agree. |
| Matthew 13:10-17 |
| 10And his disciples came, and said to him: Why speakest thou to them in parables? 11He answered and said unto them: It is given unto you to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12For whosoever hath, to him shall be given: and he shall have abundance. But whosoever hath not: from him shall be taken away even that same that he hath. 13Therefore speak I to them in similitudes. For though they see, they see not: and hearing they hear not: nether understand. 14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esay, which prophecy saith: with your ears ye shall hear, and shall not understand, and with your eyes ye shall see, and shall not perceive. 15For this people's heart is waxed gross. And their ears were dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed, lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their hearts, and should turn, that I might heal them. 16But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. 17Verily I say unto you, that many prophets and perfect men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them: and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them. |
| 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 |
| 26Brethren look on your calling how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many of high degree are called: 27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world, to confound the wise. And hath chosen the weak things of the world, to confound things which are mighty. 28And vile things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen yea and things of no reputation, for to bring to nought things of reputation, 29that no flesh should rejoice in his presence. |
| Heman wrote: |
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Nevertheless, suppose his attention were directed to the following statements of Scripture: "The Lord God shall give unto him (Jesus) the throne of his father David" (Luke 1: 32), "and he shall be ruler in Israel" (Micah 5:2), and "shall reign over them in Mount Zion" (Micah 4:7). For the same Jesus that ascended to heaven shall come again in like manner as he ascended (Acts 1:11). "He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him" (Psalms 72:8, 11.) for he shall come in the clouds of heaven, and there shall be given unto him a kingdom, glory and dominion, that all peoples, nations, and languages may serve and obey him (Dan. 7:13-14), and "the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed when the Lord of Hosts shall reign in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously" (Isaiah 24:23). "It seems plain from this that Christ is coming to the earth again, and that on his return, he will set aside all existing rule upon the earth and reign personally in Jerusalem, as universal king," Take another instance: - "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel" (Micah 5:2). A promise fulfilled. Matthew 2:1 - "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, in the days of Herod the King behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem." The fulfillment of the prophecy was in exact accordance with a literal understanding of the words employed, as every one is aware. In Zechariah, chap. 9:9, we read: - "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem; behold, thy king cometh unto thee: he is just and having salvation, lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt, the foal of an ass." It is difficult to conjecture what the spiritualistic method of interpretation would have made of this as a still unfulfilled prophecy. Matt. 21:2 - "Jesus sent two disciples, saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her; loose them and bring them unto me . . . And the disciples went and did as Jesus commanded them, and brought the ass and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. 4 ALL THIS WAS DONE THAT IT MIGHT BE FULFILLED WHICH WAS SPOKEN BY THE PROPHET, SAYING 5 Tell ye the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. |
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:27 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||
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Brings to remembrance:
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| Heman wrote: |
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Were the reformers inspired? |
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The Lord God knoweth them that are his. And I perceive that many martyrs certainly were inspired.. because there's no greater inspiration than to follow Christ and give your life as a friend in love for liberty and justice.
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| Heman wrote: |
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Were Luther, Calvin, John Knox, Wycliffe, and other energetic men who brought about the change in question infallible? |
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| I don't know. Only the most Highest God is infallible, let it be even by whomever fallible man he works through. |
| Heman wrote: |
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If they were so, there is an end to the controversy: but no one will take a position that is competent to form an opinion on the subject. If the Reformers were not inspired and infallible, is it not right and rational to set the Bible above them, and to try their work by the only standard test which can be applied in our day? |
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| I can't speak for the reformers, but alteast acknowledge how William Tyndale well said in the preface to the Parable of the wicked mammon:
.."There is difference in the names between a pope, a cardinal, a bishop, and so forth, and to say a scribe, a pharisee, a senior, and so forth; but the thing is all one. Even so now, when we have uttered him, he will change himself once more, and turn himself into angel of light. (2 Cor. xi.) Read the place, I exhort thee, whatsoever thou art that readest this, and note it well. The Jews look for Christ, and he is come fifteen hundred years ago, and they not aware: we also have looked for Antichrist, and he hath reigned as long, and we not aware; and that because either of us looked carnally for him, and not in the places where we ought to have sought. The Jews had found Christ verily if they had sought him in the law and the prophets, wither Christ sendeth them to seek. (John v.) We also had spied out Antichrist long ago if we had looked in the doctrine of Christ and his apostles, where, because the beast seeth himself now to be sought for, he roareth, and seeketh new holes to hide himself in, and changeth himself into (an angel of light) a thousand fashions, with all manner [of] wiliness, falsehood, subtilty, and craft. Because that his excommunications are come to light, he maketh it treason unto the king to be acquaintd with Christ. If Christ and they may not reign together, one hope we have that Christ shall live ever."... |
| Heman wrote: |
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Consider this question: Was it likely the Reformers should at once, and in every particular, emancipate themselves from the spiritual bondage of Romaic tradition? |
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| Atleast William Tyndale (ironically a former Catholic Priest) certainly accepted Scripture according to the grace of God bestowed on him. And he acknowledged it by ensample with great meekness as we ought to likewise, yea even emancipating himself at a great price. |
| Heman wrote: |
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It was a very partial Reformation, as far as doctrinal rectification was concerned - that but a very small part of the truth has been presented, and that many of the greatest heresies of the Church of Rome were retained, and continue to be the groundwork of the Protestant Church. The position was not favorable to the exercise of independent judgment. Men so trained were prone to acquiesce in what they were brought up to, from the mere force of habit and interest, sanctioned and strengthened no doubt by the belief that it was, and must of necessity be, true. Moreover, this is the position of the clergy of the present day. Let them emancipate themselves from the idea that theoretical religion is the business of the pulpit. Let them realize that it is their duty to go to the Bible for themselves. "How do we interpret the Bible?" |
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As it is written:
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| Heman wrote: |
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"The Scriptures are able to make thee wise unto salvation" (II Tim. 3:15). What is the result of this effect? There is only one answer: by the language, it employs. It is supposed and assumed that the Bible is not explicit by the ordinary rules of speech, but it is in a language used in an unnatural sense, that has to be interpreted and rendered in a skilled manner. "The Bible, as a written revelation from God, must be written in language capable of being understood by those to whom it is sent." To this abstract proposition, there is no doubt he would agree. |
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God chooses us, and we don't choose him to say that he would agree to anything. Specially taking into account:
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| Heman wrote: |
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Nevertheless, suppose his attention were directed to the following statements of Scripture: "The Lord God shall give unto him (Jesus) the throne of his father David" (Luke 1: 32), "and he shall be ruler in Israel" (Micah 5:2), and "shall reign over them in Mount Zion" (Micah 4:7). For the same Jesus that ascended to heaven shall come again in like manner as he ascended (Acts 1:11). "He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him" (Psalms 72:8, 11.) for he shall come in the clouds of heaven, and there shall be given unto him a kingdom, glory and dominion, that all peoples, nations, and languages may serve and obey him (Dan. 7:13-14), and "the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed when the Lord of Hosts shall reign in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously" (Isaiah 24:23). "It seems plain from this that Christ is coming to the earth again, and that on his return, he will set aside all existing rule upon the earth and reign personally in Jerusalem, as universal king," Take another instance: - "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel" (Micah 5:2). A promise fulfilled. Matthew 2:1 - "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, in the days of Herod the King behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem." The fulfillment of the prophecy was in exact accordance with a literal understanding of the words employed, as every one is aware. In Zechariah, chap. 9:9, we read: - "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem; behold, thy king cometh unto thee: he is just and having salvation, lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt, the foal of an ass." It is difficult to conjecture what the spiritualistic method of interpretation would have made of this as a still unfulfilled prophecy. Matt. 21:2 - "Jesus sent two disciples, saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her; loose them and bring them unto me . . . And the disciples went and did as Jesus commanded them, and brought the ass and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. 4 ALL THIS WAS DONE THAT IT MIGHT BE FULFILLED WHICH WAS SPOKEN BY THE PROPHET, SAYING 5 Tell ye the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. |
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| And we have not received the spirit of the world: but the spirit which cometh of God, for to know the things that are given to us of God, which things also we speak, not in the cunning words of man's wisdom, but with the cunning words of the holy ghost, making spiritual comparisons of spiritual things.(and judge spiritual matters spiritually) 1Co. 2:12-13 |
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:25 am| Code: |
| Mat 6:19 (See that ye) Gather not treasure together on (upon) the earth, where rust and moths corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal.
Mat 6:20 But gather ye treasures together in heaven, where neither rust, nor yet moths corrupt: and where thieves neither break up, nor yet steal. Mat 6:21 For wheresoever your treasure is, there are your hearts also.(there will your hears be also.) Mat 6:22 The lamp of the body is thine eye. Wherefore if thine eye be single, (sincere, clear) all thy body is full of light. Mat 6:23 But and if thine eye be wicked,(malign) then is all thy body full of darkness.(tares) Wherefore if the light that is in thee, be darkness:(tares) how great is that darkness?(how many shall be such tares?) Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters. For either he shall hate the one, and love the other: or else he shall lean to the one, and despise that other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.(materialism) |
| 2 Timothy 2:16-21 |
| 16Unghostly and vain voices pass over. For they shall increase unto greater ungodliness, 17and their words shall fret even as doth a canker: of whose number is Hymeneos and Philetos, 18which as concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and do destroy the faith of divers persons. 19But the sure ground of God remaineth, and hath this seal: the Lord knoweth them that are his, and let every man that calleth on the name of Christ, depart from iniquity. 20Notwithstanding in a great house are not only vessels of gold and of silver: but also of wood and of earth: Some for honour, and some unto dishonour. 21 If a man purge himself from such fellows, he shall be a vessel sanctified unto honour meet for the Lord, and prepared unto all good works. |
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:17 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:36 am| John 5:39-47 |
| 39Search the scriptures, for in them, ye think ye have eternal life: And they are they which testify of me. 40And yet will ye not come to me that ye might have life. 41I receive not praise of men: 42But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43I am come in my father's name, and ye receive me not. If another shall come in his own name, him will ye receive. 44How can ye believe, which receive praise one of another, and seek not the praise which cometh of God only? 45Suppose not, that I will accuse you to my father. There is one that accuseth you, verily Moses in whom ye trust. 46For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: For he wrote of me. 47But when ye believe not his writing: how shall ye believe my words. |
| Code: |
| Examine(prove) all things. Reap(and Keep) that which is good. -1Th. 5:21 |
| 2 Corinthians 13:5-8 |
| 5Prove yourselves whether ye are in the faith or not. Examine your own selves: know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you? except ye be castaways. 6I trust that ye shall know that we are not castaways. 7I desire before God that ye do none evil, not that we should seem commendable: but that ye should do, that which is honest: and let us be counted as lewd persons. 8We can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. |
| 1 Peter 3:17 |
| It is better (if the will of God be so) that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. |
| Psalms 26:2 |
| Examine me, O LORD, and prove me: try out my reins and my heart. |
Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:46 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||||
| The plain truth is Christ and him crucified for our sins;
Yea and the same Jesu Christ risen from death. And whatever the adversary accuses or slanders, .... let it be through religionism, even scholarship or some other disguise, (still we are covered under the blood of Christ.) yea even Moses as the Lord well said:
Nevermind whomever else.. yea I myself have my divers faults and as I amend them am very thankful to God the Lord who bestoweth such mighty grace beyond comprehension. That is why all ought to have a safe attitude in good courage to:
Yea like King David who went thorow it likewise:
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:07 pm| Quote: |
| For all scripture given by inspiration of God, is profitable to teach, to improve, to inform,(amend) and to instruct in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, and prepared unto all good works. -2Tim. 3:16-17 |
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| Mar 16:15 And he said unto them: Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel{glad tidings} to all creatures:
Mar 16:16 Whosoever{He that} believeth, and is baptised, shall be safe:{saved.} And whosoever{But he} that believeth not, shall be damned. Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils, and shall speak with new tongues, Mar 16:18 and shall kill serpents. And if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them. They shall lay their hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mar 16:19 So then when the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received into heaven, and sat{him down} on the right hand of God. Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached everywhere. And the Lord wrought with them; And confirmed their preaching{the word} with miracles that followed. The end of the Gospell off S. Mark. |
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| Luk 24:44 And he said unto them: These are the words, which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you: that all must be fulfilled which were written of me in the law of Moses, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their wits,{understanding} that they might understand the scriptures, Luk 24:46 and said unto them: Thus is it written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise again from death the third day. Luk 24:47 And that repentance, and remission of sins, should be preached in his name among all nations. And the beginning must be{And must begin} at Jerusalem. Luk 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things. Luk 24:49 And behold, I will send the promise of my father upon you. But tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.{above} |
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| Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as it had been the coming of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they sat.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues, [like] as they had been fire, and it sat upon each of them: Act 2:4 and they were all filled with the holy ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, even as the spirit gave them utterance. Act 2:5 [And] There were dwelling at Jerusalem jews, devout men, which were of all nations under heaven. Act 2:6 When this was noised about, the multitude came together{to gether} and were astonied, because that every man heard them speak his own tongue. Act 2:7 They wondered all, and marveled saying among themselves: Look,{Behold} are not all these which speak of Galilee? Act 2:8 And how hear we every man his own tongue wherein we were born? Act 2:9 Parthians, Medes, and Elamites and the inhabiters of Mesopotamia, of Jury, [and of] Capadocia, [of] Ponthus, and of Asia; Act 2:10 Phrigia, Pamphlia, and of Egypt, and of the parts of Libia, which is beside Syrene; And strangers of Rome; Act 2:11 Jews and Proselytes,{converts} Greeks and Arabians: We have heard them speak with our own tongues the great works of God. Act 2:12 They were all amazed, and wondered saying one to another: what meaneth this? |
| Jeremiah 31:31-34 |
| 31Behold, the days come (sayeth the LORD) that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 32not after the covenant that I made with their fathers, when I took them by the hand, and led them out of the land of Egypt: which covenant they brake, wherefore I punished them sore, sayeth the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, sayeth the LORD: I will plant my law in the inward parts of them, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And from thence forth shall no man teach his neighbour or his brother, and say: Know the LORD: But they shall all know me, from the lowest unto the highest, sayeth the LORD. For I will forgive their misdeeds, and will never remember their sins any more. |
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| Heb 8:7 For if that first testament had been such a one that no man could have found fault with it:(MT: faultless:) then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For in rebuking them he saith: Behold the days will come (saith the Lord) and I will finish upon the house of Israel, and upon the house of Judah, a new testament: Heb 8:9 not like the testament that I made with their fathers at that time, when I took them by the hands, to lead them out of the land of Egypt, for they continued not in my testament, and I regarded them not saith the Lord. Heb 8:10 For this is the testament that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days (saith the Lord:) I will put{give} my laws in their minds,{mind} and in their hearts, I will write them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach, every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying: know the Lord: For they shall know me, from the least to the most of them: Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful over their iniquities: and on their sins and on their unrighteousness, will I not think any more.{For I will be merciful over their unrighteousness, and on their sins and on their iniquities.} Heb 8:13 In that he saith a new testament, he hath abrogate{weareth out} the old. Now that which is disannulled{worn out} and waxed old, is ready to vanish away. |
| Hebrews 10:15-25 |
| 15And the holy ghost also beareth us record of this, even when he told before: 16This is the testament that I will make unto them after those days saith the Lord. And I will put my laws in their hearts, and in their minds I will write them, 17and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18And where remission of these things is, there is no more offering for sin. 19Seeing brethren that by the means of the blood of Jesu, we may be bold to enter into that holy place, 20by the new and living way, which he hath prepared for us, through the veil, that is to say by his flesh. 21And seeing also that we have an high priest which is ruler over the house of God, 22let us draw nigh with a true heart in a full faith sprinkled in our hearts, from an evil conscience, and washed in our bodies with pure water, 23and let us keep the profession of our hope, without wavering (for he is faithful that promised) 24and let us consider one another to provoke unto love, and to good works: 25and let us not forsake the fellowship that we have among ourselves, as the manner of some is: but let us exhort one another, and that so much the more, because ye see that the day draweth nigh. |
| Quote: |
| Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard of it have not ceased praying for you, and desiring that ye might be fulfilled with the knowledge of his will, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding,
Col 1:10 that ye might walk worthy of the Lord in all things that please, being fruitful in all good works and increasing in the knowledge of God Col 1:11 strengthed with all might, thorow his glorious power,{power according to the might of his glory} unto all patience, and long suffering, with joyfulness, Col 1:12 giving thanks unto the father which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of saints in light. Col 1:13 Which hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear son, Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption thorow his blood, that is to say,{namely the} forgiveness of sins, Col 1:15 which is the image of the invisible God, first begotten before{of} all creatures: Col 1:16 for by him were all things created, things that are in heaven, and things that are in earth: things visible, and things invisible: whether they be majesty or lordship, either rule or power. Col 1:17 All things are created by him, and in him, and he is before all things, and in him all things have their being. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, that is to wit of the congregation, he is the beginning and first begotten of the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:19 For it pleased the father that in him should all fullness dwell, Col 1:20 and by him to reconcile all things unto himself, and to set at peace by him thorow the blood of his cross both things in heaven and things in earth. Col 1:21 And you (which were in times past strangers and enemies, because your minds were set in evil works) hath he now reconciled Col 1:22 in the body of his flesh thorow death, to make you holy, and such as no man could complain on,{unblameable} and without fault in his own sight, Col 1:23 if ye continue grounded and stablished in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, whereof ye have heard, how that it is preached among all creatures, which are under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. |
| Quote: |
| Eph 2:4 But God which is rich in mercy thorow his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead by sin, hath quickened us with{together in} Christ (For by grace are ye saved) Eph 2:6 and with him hath raised us up, and with him hath made us sit in heavenly things, thorow Jesus Christ;{and hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly things thorow Christ Iesus} Eph 2:7 For to shew in times to come the exceeding riches of his grace, in kindness to us ward, thorow{in} Christ Jesus.{Iesu.} Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye made safe{saved} thorow faith, and that not of your selves: For it is the gift of God, Eph 2:9 and cometh not of works, lest any man should boast himself. Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesu unto good works, unto the which God ordained us before, that we should walk in them. |
| 2 Peter 3:15-18 |
| 15And suppose that the long suffering of the Lord is health, even as our dearly beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given unto him, wrote to you, 16yea, almost in every pistel speaking of such things: among which are many things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned, and unstable pervert, as they do other scriptures unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore beloved seeing ye are warned; Beware lest ye be also plucked away with the error of the wicked, and own steadfastness: 18but grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord, and saviour Jesus Christ. To whom be glory both now and for ever, Amen. Here endeth the second epistle of saint Peter |
| Quote: |
| 1Jo 2:27 And the anointing which ye have received of him dwelleth in you. And ye need not that any man teach you: but as that anointing teacheth you all things, and is true, and is no lie: and as it taught you, even so bide therein. |
| Quote: |
| 2Co 13:5 Prove yourselves whether ye are in the faith or not. Examine your own selves: know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you? except ye be castaways.
2Co 13:6 I trust that ye shall know that we are not castaways. 2Co 13:7 I desire before God that ye do none evil, not that we should seem commendable: but that ye should do, that which is honest:{good} and let us be counted as lewd persons.{cast aways} |
| 1 John 4:4 |
| Little children, ye are of God, and have overcome them: for greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. |
| Quote: |
| 2Ti 2:1 Thou therefore my son be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesu.
2Ti 2:2 And what things thou hast heard of me, many bearing witness, the same deliver to{commit unto} faithful men, which are apt to teach other.{others} 2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore suffer affliction as a good soldier of Jesu Christ. 2Ti 2:4 No man that warreth, entangleth himself with worldly business, and that because he would please him that hath chosen him to be a soldier. 2Ti 2:5 And though a man strive for a mastery, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 2Ti 2:6 The husbandman that laboureth must first receive of{enjoy} the fruits. 2Ti 2:7 Consider what I say. The Lord give thee understanding in all things. 2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ being of the seed of David, rose again from death according to my gospel,{gospell} 2Ti 2:9 wherein I suffer trouble as an evil doer, even unto bonds. But the word of God was not bound. 2Ti 2:10 Herefore I suffer all things, for the elects' sakes, that they might also obtain that health{salvation} which is in Christ Jesu, with eternal glory. 2Ti 2:11 It is a true saying: If we be dead with him, we also shall live with him; 2Ti 2:12 If we be patient, we shall also reign with him; If we deny him, he also shall deny us; 2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet abideth he faithful; He cannot deny himself. |
| Quote: |
| 2Pe 3:3 This first understand, that there shall come in the last days mockers (in deceitfulness) which will walk after their own lusts
2Pe 3:4 and say: Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers died all things continue in the same estate wherein they were at the beginning.{begginning of the creature} 2Pe 3:5 This they know not (and that willingly){willfully} how that the heavens a great while ago were, and the earth that was in the water, appeared up out of the water by the word of God: 2Pe 3:6 by the which things the world that then was perished overflowen{that time destroyed by the same} with the flood.{water.} 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens verily and earth which are now, are kept by the same word in store, and reserved unto fire, against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.{damnation of ungodly men} 2Pe 3:8 Dearly beloved be not ignorant of this one thing, how that one day is with the Lord, as a thousand year, and a thousand year as one day. 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack to fulfil his promise as some men count slackness: but is patient to us ward and would have no man lost, but would receive all men to repentance.{and will not that any man should be lost, but that every man should amend himself} 2Pe 3:10 Nevertheless the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which day, the heavens shall perish with terrible{a great} noise, and the elements shall melt with heat, and the earth with the works that are therein shall burn. 2Pe 3:11 If all these things shall perish, what manner persons ought ye to be in holy conversation, and godliness: 2Pe 3:12 looking for, and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,{coming of the LORDE} in which the heavens shall perish with fire, and the elements shall be consumed{elements shall melt} with heat. 2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we look for a new heaven, and a new earth, according to his promise, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 2Pe 3:14 Wherefore dearly beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot and undefiled: 2Pe 3:15 And suppose that the long suffering of the Lord is health,{salvation} even as our dearly beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given unto him, wrote to you, 2Pe 3:16 yea, almost in every pistel{almost in very pistle} speaking of such things: among which are many things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned, and unstable pervert, as they do other scriptures unto their own destruction.{also, to their own damnation} 2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore beloved seeing ye are warned;{know it beforehand} Beware lest ye be also plucked(MC: plucte) away with the error of the wicked, and [fall from your] own steadfastness: 2Pe 3:18 but grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord, and saviour Jesus Christ. To whom be glory both now and for ever, Amen. Here endeth the second epistle of saint Peter |
| Quote: |
| Rev 3:14 And unto the angel{messenger} of the congregation which is in Laodicia write: This saith (amen) the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creatures of God.
Rev 3:15 I know thy works that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot. Rev 3:16 So then because thou art between both, and neither{nether} cold nor{ner} hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth:{mought} Rev 3:17 because thou sayst thou art rich and increased with goods, and hast need of nothing, and knowest not how thou art wretched and miserable, poor, blind, and naked. Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayst be rich: and white raiment, that thou mayst be clothed, that thy filthy nakedness do not appear: and anoint thine eyes with eye salve, that thou mayst see. Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Be fervent therefore and repent. Rev 3:20 Behold I stand at the door and knock. If any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in unto him and will sup with him, and he with me. Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my seat, even as I overcame and have sitten with my father, in his seat. Rev 3:22 Let him that hath ears, hear what the spirit saith unto the congregations. |
| James 1:16-27 |
| 16Err not my dear brethren. 17Every good gift, and every perfect gift, is from above and cometh down from the father of light, with whom is no variableness, neither is he changed unto darkness. 18Of his own will begat he us with the word of life, that we should be the first of his creatures. 19Wherefore dear brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, and slow to wrath. 20For the wrath of man worketh not that which is righteous before God. 21Wherefore lay apart all filthiness, all superfluity of maliciousness, and receive with meekness the word that is grafted in you, which is able to save your souls: 22And see that ye be doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23For if any hear the word, and do it not, he is like unto a man that beholdeth his bodily face in a glass. 24For as soon as he hath looked on himself, he goeth his way, and hath immediately forgotten what his fashion was: 25but whosoever looketh in the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein (if he be not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work) he shall be happy in his deed. 26If any man among you seem devout, and refrain not his tongue: but deceive his own heart, this man's devotion is in vain. 27Pure devotion and undefiled before God the father, is this: To visit the friendless, and widows in their adversity, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. |
Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:04 pm| Quote: |
| 2Pe 3:3 This first understand, that there shall come in the last days mockers (in deceitfulness) which will walk after their own lusts |
| Quote: |
| 2Pe 3:4 and say: Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers died all things continue in the same estate wherein they were at the beginning.{begginning of the creature |
| Quote: |
| James 1:16-27 16Err not my dear brethren. 17Every good gift, and every perfect gift, is from above and cometh down from the father of light, with whom is no variableness, neither is he changed unto darkness. 18Of his own will begat he us with the word of life, that we should be the first of his creatures. |
| Quote: |
| Col 1:15 which is the image of the invisible God, first begotten before{of} all creatures:
Col 1:16 for by him were all things created, things that are in heaven, and things that are in earth: things visible, and things invisible: whether they be majesty or lordship, either rule or power. Col 1:17 All things are created by him, and in him, and he is before all things, and in him all things have their being. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, that is to wit of the congregation, he is the beginning and first begotten of the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence. |
| Quote: |
| For all scripture given by inspiration of God, is profitable to teach, to improve, to inform,(amend) and to instruct in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, and prepared unto all good works. -2Tim. 3:16-17 |
| Quote: |
| Mar 16:15 And he said unto them: Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel{glad tidings} to all creatures: |
Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:57 pm| 1 Corinthians 6:2-8 |
| 2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? If the world shall be judged by you: are ye not good enough to judge small trifles. 3Know ye not how that we shall judge the angels? How much more may we judge things that pertain to the life? 4If ye have judgements of worldly matters, take them which are despised in the congregation, and make them judges. 5This I say to your shame. Is there utterly no wise man among you? what not one at all? that can judge between brother and brother? 6but one brother goeth to law with another: and that under the unbelievers? 7Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why rather suffer ye not wrong? why rather suffer ye not yourselves to be robbed? 8Nay ye yourselves do wrong, and rob: and that the brethren. |
| Code: |
| 1Co 2:12 And we have not received the spirit of the world: but the spirit which cometh of God, for to know the things that are given to us of God,
1Co 2:13 which things also we speak, not in the cunning words of man's wisdom, but with the cunning words of the holy ghost, making spiritual comparisons of spiritual things.{and judge spiritual matters spiritually} 1Co 2:14 For the natural man perceiveth not the things of the spirit of God: For they are but foolishness unto him. Neither can he perceive them because he is spiritually examined:{can not perceive it: for it must be spiritually discerned} 1Co 2:15 but he that is spiritual discusseth all things: yet he himself is judged of no man. 1Co 2:16 For who knoweth the mind of the Lord, other who shall inform him? but we understand the mind of Christ. |
| Quote: |
| 1Co 4:1 Let men this wise esteem us, even as the ministers of Christ, and disposers{stewards} of the secrets of God.
1Co 4:2 Furthermore it is required of the disposers{stewards} that they be found faithful. 1Co 4:3 With me is it but a very small thing, that I should be judged of you, either of man's day. No I judge not mine own self. 1Co 4:4 I know nought by myself: yet am I not thereby justified. It is the Lord that judgeth me. 1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, which will lighten things that are hid in darkness: and open the counsels of the hearts. And then shall every man have praise of God. 1Co 3:6 I have planted: Apollo watered: but God gave increase. 1Co 3:7 So then, neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth: but God which gave the increase. 1Co 3:8 He that planteth, and he that watereth, are neither better than the other. Every man yet shall receive his reward according to his labour. 1Co 4:9 Me thinketh that God hath shewed{set forth} us which are apostles, for the hindmost{lowest} of all, as it were men appointed to death. For we are a gazingstock unto the world, and to the angels, and to men, 1Co 4:10 we are fools for Christ's sake, and ye are wise thorow Christ: we are weak, and ye are strong. Ye are honorable, and we are despised. 1Co 4:11 Even unto this day we hunger and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted with fists, and have no certain dwelling place, 1Co 4:12 and labour working with our own hands. We are reviled, and yet we bless. We are persecuted, and suffer it. 1Co 4:13 We are evil spoken of, and we pray. We are made as it were the filthiness{become as it were very outsweepings} of the world, the offscouring of all things, even unto this time. 1Co 4:14 I write not these things to shame you: but as my beloved sons{dear children} I warn you. 1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ: yet have ye not many fathers. In Christ Jesu, I have begotten you thorow the gospel. 1Co 4:16 Wherefore I desire{exhort} you to counterfeit{follow} me. (as I follow Christ) |
| Quote: |
| 2Pe 3:15 And suppose that the long suffering of the Lord is health,{salvation} even as our dearly beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given unto him, wrote to you,
2Pe 3:16 yea, almost in every pistel{almost in very pistle} speaking of such things: among which are many things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned, and unstable pervert, as they do other scriptures unto their own destruction.{also, to their own damnation} 2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore beloved seeing ye are warned;{know it beforehand} Beware lest ye be also plucked{plucte} away with the error of the wicked, and [fall from your] own steadfastness: 2Pe 3:18 but grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord, and saviour Jesus Christ. To whom be glory both now and for ever, Amen. Here endeth the second epistle of saint Peter |
| Isaiah 28:16 |
| Therefore thus sayeth the Lord GOD: Behold, I will lay a stone in Sion, a great stone, a costly corner stone, for a sure foundation: that who so putteth his trust in him, shall not be confounded. |
| 1 Corinthians 3:11-23 |
| 11For other foundation can no man lay, than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man build on this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, timber, hay, or stubble: 13every man's work shall appear. For the day shall declare it, and it shall be shewed in fire, and the fire shall try every man's work what it is. 14If any man's work that he hath built upon, bide, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he shall be safe himself: nevertheless yet as it were thorow fire. 16Are ye not ware that ye are the temple of God, and how that the spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which temple are ye. 18Let no man deceive himself. If any man seem wise among you, let him be a fool in this world, that he may be wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: he compasseth the wise in their craftiness. 20And again, God knoweth the thoughts of the wise that they be vain. 21Therefore let no man rejoice in men. For all things are yours, 22whether it be Paul, other Apollo, either Cephas: whether it be the world, either life, either death, whether they be present things or things to come: all are yours, 23and ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's. |
| WT preface excerpt to the parable of the wicked mammon wrote: |
| The old Antichrists brought Christ unto Pilate, saying, By our law he ought to die; and when Pilate bade them judge him after their law, they answered, It is not lawful for us to kill any man; which they did to the intent that they which regarded not the shame of their false excommunications, should yet fear to confess Christ, because that the temporal sword had condemned him. THey do all things of a good zeal, they say; they love you so well, that they had rather burn you, than that you should have fellowship with Christ. They are jealous over you amiss, (as saith St. Paul Gal. iv.) They would divide you from Christ and his holy Testament, and join you to the pope, to believe in his testament and promises. Some man will ask, peradaventure, WHy I take the labour to make this work, inasmuch as they will burn it, seeing they burnt the gospel? I answer, In burning the New Testament they did none other thing than that I looked for, no more shall they do if they burn me also, if it be God's will it shall be. |
| John 14:12 |
| Verily, verily I say unto you whosoever believeth on me, the works that I do, the same shall he do, and greater works then these shall he do, because I go unto my father. |
| Code: |
| 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself laudable unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, dividing the word of truth justly.
2Ti 2:16 Unghostly and vain voices pass over. For they shall increase unto greater ungodliness,{As for unghostly and vain talkings, eschew them: for they help much to ungodliness} 2Ti 2:17 and their words shall fret even{their word fretteth} as doth a canker:{cancre} of whose number is Hymeneos and Philetos, 2Ti 2:18 which as concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already,{all ready} and do destroy the faith of divers persons. |
| Quote: |
| Rom 9:1 I Say the truth in Christ and lie not, in that whereof my conscience beareth me witness in the holy ghost,
Rom 9:2 that I have great heaviness, and continual sorrow in my heart. Rom 9:3 For I have wished myself to be cursed from Christ for my brethren, which are my kinsmen as pertaining to the flesh. Rom 9:4 Which are the Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, (of the children) and the glory, and the testaments,{convenants} and the ordinance of the law,{the law that was given} and the service of God, and the promises, Rom 9:5 whose also are the fathers, and they of whom (as concerning the flesh) Christ came: which is God over all things blessed forever Amen. Rom 9:6 I speak not these things as though the words of God had took{taken} none effect. For they are not all Israelites which came of Israel; Rom 9:7 Neither are they all children straightway because they are the seed of Abraham: But in Isaac shall thy seed be called, Rom 9:8 that is to say; They which are the children of the flesh, are not the children of God. But the children of promise are counted the seed. Rom 9:9 For this is a word of promise, about this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. Rom 9:10 Neither was it so with her only: but also when Rebecca was with child by one, I mean{namely} by our father Isaac, Rom 9:11 yer the children were born, when they had neither done good neither bad (that the purpose of God which is by election, might stand) it was said unto her, not by the reason(MC: deserving) of works, but by grace of the caller, Rom 9:12 the elder shall serve the younger.{The greater shall serve the less} Rom 9:13 As it is written: Jacob he loved, but Esau he hated. Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? is there any unrighteousness with God? God forbid. Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses: I will shew mercy to whom I shew mercy: And will have compassion on whom I have compassion. Rom 9:16 So lieth it not then in a man's will, or running,{cunning} but in the mercy of God. Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh: Even for this same purpose{this cause} have I stirred thee up, to shew my power on thee, and that my name might be declared thorowout all the world.{declared in all lands} Rom 9:18 So hath he mercy on whom he will. And whom he will he maketh hard hearted.{hardeneth} Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me: why then blameth he us yet? For who can resist his will? Rom 9:20 But O man what art thou, which disputest with God? shall the work say to the workman: why hast thou made me on this fashion? Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, even of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Rom 9:22 Even so, God willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, suffered with long{brought forth with great} patience the vessels of wrath, ordained to damnation, Rom 9:23 that he might declare the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had prepared{prepayred} unto glory: Rom 9:24 that is to say, us which he called, not of the jews only, but also of the gentiles. Rom 9:25 As he saith in Osee: I will call them my people which were not my people: and her beloved which was not beloved. Rom 9:26 And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said unto them: Ye are not my people, that there shall be called the sons{children} of the living God. Rom 9:27 But Esaias crieth for{concerning} Israel, though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet shall a remnant be saved. Rom 9:28 He finisheth the work verily and maketh it short in righteousness. For a short word will God make on earth. Rom 9:29 And as Esaias said before: Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us seed, we had been made as Zodoma, and had been likened to Gomorra. Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? we say that the gentiles which followed not righteousness, have overtaken righteousness I mean the righteousness which cometh of faith. Rom 9:31 But Israel which followed the law of righteousness, could not attain unto the law of righteousness. Rom 9:32 And wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith: but as it were by the works of the law.{but as it were out of the deserving of works} For they have stumbled at the stumbling stone. Rom 9:33 As it is written: Behold I put in Syon a stumbling stone, and a rock which shall make men fall.{to be offended at} And none that believe on him, shall be ashamed.{and who so ever believeth on him, shall not be confounded} |
Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:13 pm| Quote: |
| 1Co 2:12-16 And we have not received the spirit of the world: but the spirit which cometh of God, for to know the things that are given to us of God,
1Co 4:1-16 Let men this wise esteem us, even as the ministers of Christ, and disposers{stewards} of the secrets of God. Eph 6:16 Above all take to you the shield of faith, wherewith ye may quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of health,{salvation} and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, 2Pe 3:15 And suppose that the long suffering of the Lord is health,{salvation} even as our dearly beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given unto him, wrote to you My main point about THE PLAIN TRUTH is that without Christ we really can't do anything absolutely perfect, and will always come short.. Even with mass scholarship, translations, manuscripts what-have-you.. or even (if it were possible) the original Scriptures themselves as first penned would avail nothing without him who is risen from the dead, alive and on high at the right of the father beholding us. For if the foundation (i.e. Jesu Christ) isn't properly acknowledged (especially today) then how do you stand to begin with? Joh 15:5 I am the vine, and ye are the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit. For without me can ye do nothing. 1 Cor 3:11-23 11For other foundation can no man lay, than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself laudable unto God Rom 9:1-33 I Say the truth in Christ and lie not, in that whereof my conscience beareth me witness in the holy ghost, Rom 9:2 that I have great heaviness, and continual sorrow in my heart. Rom 9:3 For I have wished myself to be cursed from Christ for my brethren, which are my kinsmen as pertaining to the flesh. Rom 9:4 Which are the Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, (of the children) and the glory, and the testaments,{convenants} and the ordinance of the law,{the law that was given} and the service of God, and the promises, Rom 9:5 whose also are the fathers, and they of whom (as concerning the flesh) Christ came: which is God over all things blessed forever Amen. |
Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:36 pm| heman wrote: |
|
Phil 4:13 I am strong in the one strengthening me. |
| Psalms 100:5 |
| For the LORD is gracious, his mercy is everlasting, and his truth endureth from generation to generation. |
| Malachi 3:6 |
| For I am the LORD that change not, and ye (O children of Jacob) will not leave off: |
| Hebrews 13:8 |
| Jesus Christ yesterday and today, and the same continueth for ever. |
| Code: |
| 4:13 παντα ισχυω εν τω ενδυναμουντι με χριστω |
| Philippians 4:13 |
| I can do all things thorow the help of Christ, which strengtheneth me. |
| John 14:6 |
| Jesus said unto him I am the way, the verity, and life. No man cometh unto the father, but by me. |
| Quote: |
|
I am the true vine, and my father is an husbandman. Every branch that beareth not fruit in me; He will take away. And every branch that beareth fruit will he purge that it may bring more fruit. Now are ye clean, be that means of{thorow} the words which<because of the word that> I have spoken unto you. Bide in me, and I{let me bide} in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it bide in the vine: no more can ye except ye abide in me. I am the vine, and ye are the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit. For without me can ye do nothing. If a man bide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered: and men gather them,{it} and cast them{it} into the fire, and they burneth. -Joh. 15:1-6 |
| Heman wrote: |
| AND AGAIN, Rom 9:1 ? I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit |
| 2 Peter 3:15-16 |
| 15And suppose that the long suffering of the Lord is health, even as our dearly beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given unto him, wrote to you, 16yea, almost in every pistel speaking of such things: among which are many things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned, and unstable pervert, as they do other scriptures unto their own destruction. |
| Heman wrote: |
|
AND THESE ARE THE PROMISES: De 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Isa 41:8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Ge 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: Ge 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. Ge 17:7 ? And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Ge 28: 1 ? And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, ? 3 And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a multitude of people; 4 And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee; that thou mayest inherit the land wherein thou art a stranger, which God gave unto Abraham. 4 Ge 50:13 For his sons carried him into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre. Ac 7:5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child. DE 29:12 That thou shouldest enter into covenant with the LORD thy God, and into his oath, which the LORD thy God maketh with thee this day: 13 That he may establish thee to day for a people unto himself, and that he may be unto thee a God, as he hath said unto thee, and as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob. 14 Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath; 15 But with him that standeth here with us this day before the LORD our God, and also with him that is not here with us this day: 1 Pet 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. Isa 60:21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth?. 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, [color=red]received not the promise:[/color] (THAT PROMISE IS THE MYSTERY OF GOD) Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 ? And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, (THAT PROMISE OF INHERITANCE),whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. |
| Romans 10:4 |
| For Christ is the end of the law to justify all that believe. |
| Romans 3:27 |
| Where is then thy rejoicing? It is excluded. By what law? by the law of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. |
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| 1Ti 1:8 We know that the law is god,{good} if a man use it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, how that the law is not given unto a righteous man, but unto the unrighteous and disobedient, to the ungodly and to sinners, to unholy and unclean, to murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, to manslayers 1Ti 1:10 and whoremongers: to them that defile themselves with mankind: to menstealers: to liars and to perjured, and so forth if there be any other thing that is contrary to wholesome doctrine 1Ti 1:11 according to the glorious gospel of the holy God,{the gospell of the glory of the blessed God} which gospel is committed unto me. 1Ti 1:12 And I thank him that hath made me strong in Christ Jesu our Lord:{And i thank Christ Iesus our Lorde which hath made me strong:} for he counted me true, and put me in office, 1Ti 1:13 when before I was a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and a tyrant. Nevertheless I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly, in{thorow} unbelief: 1Ti 1:14 but{Neverthelater} the grace of our Lord was more abundant, with faith and love, which is in Christ Jesu. |
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| Gal 3:15 Brethren I will speak after the manner of men. Though it be but a man's testament, yet no man despiseth it, or addeth any thing thereto when it is once allowed.<confrimed>
Gal 3:16 To Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith{seyth} not, in thy{the} seeds as in many: But in thy seed, as in one, which is Christ. Gal 3:17 This I say that the law which began afterward, beyond four hundred and thirty years, doth not disannul the testament, that was confirmed{afore} of God unto Christ ward, to make the promise of none effect. Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance come of the law, it cometh not of promise: but God gave it unto Abraham by promise. Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? The law was added because of transgression (till the seed came to which the promise was made) and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.<given of angels, by the hand of the mediatour> Gal 3:20 A mediator is not a mediator of one.<of one only> But God is one. Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promise of God? God forbid.{Howbeit} If there had been a law given which could have given life: then no doubt righteousness should have come by the law: Gal 3:22 but the scripture concluded all things under sin, that the promise by the faith of Jesus Christ, should be given unto them that believe. Gal 3:23 Before that faith came, we were kept and shut up under the law, unto the faith which should afterward be declared. Gal 3:24 Wherefore<Thus> the law was our schoolmaster unto the time of Christ, that we might be made righteous by faith. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, now are we no longer under a schoolmaster.<no more under the schoolmaster> Gal 3:26 For ye are all the sons<children> of God, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:27 For all ye that<For as many of you as> are baptised, have put Christ on you.{put on Christ.} Gal 3:28 Now is there no jew, neither greek:{is ther no Iewe nether gentile:} there is neither{nether} bond, neither{ner} free: there is neither man, neither{ner} woman: for all are one thing in Christ Jesu.{but ye are all one thing in Christ Iesu} Gal 3:29 If ye be Christ's,{Christes} then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs by promise.<according to the promise> |
Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:59 pmPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:20 pmPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:09 am| Quote: |
| αμαθεστατε και κακε, αφες τον παλαιον, μη μεταποιει
Fool and knave, can't you leave the old reading alone and not alter it! |
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Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:49 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||
| Do you disregard the plethora of truthful evidence passed from one generation to another? like:
The Byzantine Text (4th Century) Erasmus, Stephens (Estienne 1550), Elzevir 1624 Being from sources (and faithful compilation) at distant territories (at which time, travel was not easy) yet amazingly agree with eachother as the original received text majority, yea like: Phi 4:13 παντα ισχυω εν τω ενδυναμουντι με χριστω The same can't be said for translations of questionable manuscripts based on Codex Vaticanus (B),and( Codex Sinaiticus ),(Codicem Alexandrinum) because they all disagree with one another in too many places, and in turn disagree with the majority received text a thousand fold. And why would there ironically be such a complaint on the codex Vaticanus margin at Heb. 1:3 stating:
Such a strong complaint very well can apply to John 1:18 to have taken out the only begotten son {ο μονογενης υιος} even substituting it with a begotten god [θεος] (as discussed before), and now Philippians 4:13 to have omitted Christ {χριστω}. |
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:59 am| heman wrote: |
| Papyrus 46 Papyrus 66 Sinaiticus (א) Alexandrinus (A) Vaticanus (B) Ephraemi Rescriptus (C) Bezae Cantabrigiensis (D) Claromontanus (D)
Heb 1:3. Omit "by himself" before "purged". G L T Tr A WH N NA Phil 4:13. Omit "Christ" and render 'through him that strengtheneth'. G L T Tr A W WH N NA G Griesbach 1805 L Lachmann 1842 T Tischendorf 1869 Tr Tregelles 1857 A Alford 1849 as revised in 1871 W Wordsworth 1856 as revised in 1870 WH Westcott & Hort 1881 NA Nestle-Aland 1979 (Aland et al. 1979) HF Hodges & Farstad 1982 as corrected in 1985 ALL the above scholars dis-agree with your assumptive statements! |
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| On page 1512, the beginning of Hebrews, an curious note appears, which is mentioned by Bruce M. Metzger in his NTTC book. A later (minuscule aera) scribe complains about a change of the text of Heb 1:3:
"αμαθεστατε και κακε, αφες τον παλαιον, μη μεταποιει" "Fool and knave, can't you leave the old reading alone and not alter it!" The note probably refers to the change of φανερων to the standard reading φερων in Heb 1:3. The letters "A" and "N" look different. The scribe of the note probably changed the correction back to the original reading. It is also interesting to mention that on the right side an umlaut appears. This probably refers to the word-order change των αμαρτιων ποιησαμενος to ποιησαμενος των αμαρτιων. This umlaut is on the "wrong" side. The question now is: Is it on the wrong side because on the left is this note? This would have serious consequences for the dating. ------ http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/Vaticanus/note1512.html |
| Psalms 118:8 |
| It is better to trust in the LORD, than to put any confidence in man. |
| 1 John 5:7-8 |
| 7(For there are three which bear record in heaven, the father, the word, and the wholy ghost. And these three are one.) 8And there are three which bear record (in earth:) the spirit, and water, and blood: and these three are one. |
| 1 John 5:9 |
| If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater. For this is the witness of God, ([that is greater]) which he testified of his son. |
| Heman wrote: |
| It is now widely accepted by textual scholars that the selection of manuscripts available to Erasmus was quite limited ? due partly to his time constraints, partly to geographic isolation before high-speed transit, and partly to the fact that many important texts were as yet undiscovered ? being confined to a few late medieval texts that most modern scholars consider to be of dubious quality. |
Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:52 amPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:47 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||||||
The scribal complaint is not assumptive, but raises very serious questions and problems for those that put their trust in them.
And notwithstanding, my trust is not in scholars.
I acknowledge the sovereign providence of the Lord God. ________________ Ironically in regards to:
Already was discussed that this doesn't neccessarily speak of any trinity supposition, but HOW the Lord thy God witnesses. (see post: translated perception) Otherwise the proceeding verse would make no sense:
No wonder this verse is under attack everytime textual criticism is brought up, because it rebukes the worldly principalities of making the witness of men greater than the witness given by God. ----------------------
Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction: and many there be, which go in thereat. But strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life: and few there be, that find it. --Mat 7:13-14 |
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| των αμαρτιων ποιησαμενος to ποιησαμενος των αμαρτιων. |
| Quote: |
| αμαθεστατε και κακε, αφες το παλαιον, μη μεταποιει"
"Fool and knave, can't you leave the old reading alone and not alter it!" |
| Quote: |
| The note probably refers to the change of φανερων to the standard reading φερων in Heb 1:3. The letters "A" and "N" look different. The scribe of the note probably changed the correction back to the original reading. |
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| It is also interesting to mention that on the right side an umlaut appears. This probably refers to the word-order change των αμαρτιων ποιησαμενος to ποιησαμενος των αμαρτιων.
This umlaut is on the "wrong" side. The question now is: Is it on the wrong side because on the left is this note? This would have serious consequences for the dating. |
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:58 am| Heman wrote: |
| You are correct it is on the wrong side but it reflects the words ?δι εαυτου? through himself, which is not a part of the originals as I have already mentioned. That is why the remarks on the left were made.
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| YEA the key is to turn doubt into faith, such as pointed out in posts:
Interesting Differences - between - the Hebrew Texts - Ps. 68:27 DILIGENCIA in reverence to the Sovereign LORd - Amazing Identical Passages |
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| t - Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
s - Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus b - Byzantine Majority as identified by Von Soden and Hoskier, and utilized by Hodges & Farstad, Robinson & Pierpont. a - Alexandrian as identified by United Bible Society, 3rd ed. Resource: Greek Text Tagged |
| 1 Corinthians 14:38 |
| But and if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. |
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Does God accept peaceofferings from worldly scholarship? Iesus answered and said unto him: hence from me Satan. For it is written. Thou shalt honour thy Lord God, and him only serve. -Luke 4:8 Have these things hence, and make not my father's house, an house of merchandise. -Joh 2:!6
For thus saith the Lord: For wheresoever your treasure is, there are your hearts also. The light of the body is thine eye. Wherefore if thine eye be clearly sincere, the whole body shall be full of light. But and if thine eye be malign, then is all thy body full of tares. Wherefore if the light that is in thee, be tares: how many are such tares? No man can serve two masters. For either he shall hate the one, and love the other: or else he shall lean to the one, and despise that other. Ye cannot serve God and filthy lucre. -Mat 6:21-24 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns? Or figs of briars?<thistles?> -Mat 7:16 Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but the blasphemy against the holy ghost, shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the holy ghost, it shall not be forgiven him: no, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Either make the tree good, and his fruit good also, or else make the tree evil, and his fruit evil also. For the tree is known by his fruit. -Mat 12:31-33 |
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? Another similitude put he forth, unto them saying: The kingdom of heaven is like unto a man which sowed good seed in his field. But while men slept, there came his foe, and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. When the blade was sprung up, and had brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. The servants came to the householder, and said unto him. Sir sowest not thou good seed in thy close, from whence then hath it tares? He said to them, the envious man hath done this. Then the servants said unto him: wilt thou then that we go and gather it? and he said, nay, lest while ye go about to weed out the tares, ye pluck up also with them the wheat by the roots: let both grow to gether till harvest come, and in time of harvest, I will say yea unto my reapers, gather ye first the tares, and bind them in sheaves to be brent: but gather the wheat into my barn. -Mat. 15:25-30 |
| Hebrews 1:3-4 |
| 3Which son being the brightness of his glory, and very image of his substance, bearing up all things with the word of his power, hath in his own person purged our sins, and is sitten on the right hand of the majesty on high, 4and is more excellent than the angels, inasmuch as he hath by inheritance obtained an excellenter name then have they. |
| Genesis 5:1-3 |
| 1This is the book of the generation of man, in the day when God created man and made him after the similitude of God. 2Male and female made he them, and called their names man, in the day when they were created. 3And when Adam was an hundred and thirty year old, he begat a son after his likeness and similitude: and called his name Seth. |
| Proverbs 30:4 |
| Who hath climbed up into heaven? Who hath come down from thence? Who hath holden the wind fast in his hand? Who hath comprehended the waters in a garment? Who hath set all the ends of the world? What is his name, or his son's name? Canst thou tell? |
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| Luk 3:23 And Jesus himself was about thirty year of age when he began, being as men supposed(MT: And he was taken for) the son of Joseph: which Joseph was the son of Heli:
... Luk 3:38 which was the son of Enos: which was the son of Seth: which was the son of Adam: which was the son of God. |
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| Act 21:37 And as Paul should have been carried into the castle; He said unto the high captain: May I speak unto thee? Which said: Canst thou speak greek?
Act 21:38 Art not thou that Egyptian which before these days, made an uproar, and led out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers? Act 21:39 But Paul said: I am a man which am a jew of Tharsus a city in Cicill, a citizen of no vile city, I beseech thee suffer me to licence; {to speak unto the people.} |
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:24 pm| Heman wrote: |
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Here is the actual ?word for word? Greek to English translation with the explanation being translated below this one. ?Hebrews 1:3 Who being a radiance of the glory and the impression of the foundation (5287) of him manifestly (5320) and the things all by the word of the power of him a cleansing (2512) of the sins have made sat down... Which being translated reads: ?Who being a radiance of the glory and impression of him manifestly of the foundation and all things by the word of the power of him a cleansing of sins has made sat down?? |
| Hebrews 1:1-4 |
| 1God in time past diversely and many ways, spake unto the fathers by prophets: 2but in these last days he hath spoken unto us by his son, whom he hath made heir of all things: by whom also he made the world. 3Which son being the brightness of his glory, and very image of his substance, bearing up all things with the word of his power, hath in his own person purged our sins, and is sitten on the right hand of the majesty on high, 4and is more excellent than the angels, inasmuch as he hath by inheritance obtained an excellenter name then have they. |
| 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 |
| 1We beseech you brethren by the coming of our Lord Jesu Christ, and in that we shall assemble unto him, 2that ye be not suddenly moved from your mind, and be not troubled, neither by spirit, neither by words, nor yet by letter, which should seem to come from us, as though the day of Christ were at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means, for the Lord cometh not, except there come a departing first, and that that sinful man be opened, the son of perdition 4which is an adversary, and is exalted above all that is called god, or that is worshipped: so that he shall sit in the temple of god, and shew himself as god. 5Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth: even that he might be uttered at his time. 7For already the mystery of iniquity worketh. Only he that holdeth, let him now hold, until it be taken out of the way, 8and then shall that wicked be uttered, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the appearance of his coming, 9even him whose coming is by the working of Satan, with all lying power, signs, and wonders: 10and in all deceivableness of unrighteousness, among them that perish: because they received not the love of the truth, that they might have been saved. 11And therefore God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe lies: 12that all they might be damned which believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. |
Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:14 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||
Ask an English teacher if that makes any sense. Yea, if that's English i must be Greek. That translation makes no sense taking the whole passage part into account:
The plain truth about all of this is well exhorted at:
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Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:13 am| Code: |
| Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns? Or figs of briars?{thistles?} |
| Psalms 4:5 |
| Offer the sacrifice of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD. |
| Matthew 5:6 |
| Blessed are they which hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they shall be filled. |
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| Mat 5:20 For I say unto you except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, ye cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. |
| Matthew 6:33 |
| But rather seek ye first the kingdom of heaven, and the righteousness thereof, and all these things shall be ministered unto you. |
| Matthew 21:32-44 |
| 32For John came unto you, in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not. But the publicans and the whores believed him. But ye (though ye saw it) yet were not moved with repentance, that ye might afterward have believed him. 33Hearken another similitude. There was a certain householder, which set a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and made a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a strange country. 34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, to receive the fruits of it, 35and the husbandmen caught his servants, and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36Again he sent other servants more than the first, and they served them likewise. 37But last of all, he sent unto them his own son, saying: they will fear my son. 38 When the husbandmen saw his son, they said among them selves: This is the heir, come on let us kill him, and let us take his inheritance, to our selves. 39And they caught him and thrust him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40When the lord of the vineyard cometh: what will he do with those husbandmen? 41They said unto him: he will evil destroy those evil persons, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall deliver him his fruit at times convenient. 42Jesus said unto them: did ye never read in the scriptures? The same stone which the builders refused, is set in the principal part of the corner: this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes. 43Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to the Gentiles which shall bring forth the fruits of it. 44And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall be alto broken. And whosoever this stone shall fall upon, he shall grind him to powder. |
| John 7:16-18 |
| 16Jesus answered them, and said: My doctrine is not mine: but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God: or whether I spake of myself. 18He that speaketh of himself, seeketh his own praise. But he that seeketh his praise that sent him, he is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. |
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| 2Ti 2:10 Herefore I suffer all things, for the elects' sakes, that they might also obtain that health<salvation> which is in Christ Jesu, with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:11 It is a true saying: If we be dead with him, we also shall live with him; 2Ti 2:12 If we be patient, we shall also reign with him; If we deny him, he also shall deny us; 2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet abideth he faithful; He cannot deny himself. 2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, and testify before the Lord, that they strive not about words, which is to no profit, but to pervert the hearers. |
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| When I had translated the new testament, I added a pistel unto the latter end, in which I desired them that were learned to amend if ought were found amiss. But our malicious and wily hypocrites which are so stubborn and hard hearted in their wicked abominations that it is not possible for them to amend any thing at all (as we see by daily experience, when both their livings and doings are rebuked with the truth) say, some of them that it is impossible to translate the scripture into English, some that it is not lawful for the lay people to have it in their mother tongue, some, that it would make them all heretics, as it would no doubt from many things which they of long time have falsely taught, and that is the whole cause wherefore they forbid it, though they other cloaks pretend. And some or rather every one, say that it would make them rise against the king, whom they themselves (unto their damnation) never yet obeyed. And lest the temporal rulers should see their falsehood, if the scripture came to light, causeth them so to lie. And as for my translation in which they affirm unto the lay people (as I have heard say) to be I wot not how many thousand heresies, so that it cannot be mended or correct, they have yet taken so great pain to examine it, and to compare it unto that they would fain have it and to their own imaginations and juggling terms, and to have somewhat to rail at, and under that cloak to blaspheme the truth, that they might with as little labour (as I suppose) have translated the most part of the bible. For they which in times past were wont to look on no more scripture than they found in their Duns or such like devilish doctrine, have yet now so narrowly looked on my translation, that there is not so much as one i therein if it lack a tittle over his head, but they have noted it, and number it unto the ignorant people for an heresy. Finally in this they be all agreed, to drive you from the knowledge of the scripture, and that ye shall not have the text thereof in the mother tongue, and to keep the world still in darkness, to the intent they might sit in the consciences of the people, thorow vain superstition and false doctrine, to satisfy their filthy lusts, their proud ambition, and unsatiable covetousness, and to exalt their own honour above king and emperor, yea and above God himself.
A thousand books had they lever to be put forth against their abominable doings and doctrine, than that the scripture should come to light. For as long as they may keep that down, they will so darken the right way with the mist of their sophistry, and so tangle them that either rebuke or despise their abominations with arguments of philosophy and with wordily {worldly} similitudes and apparent reasons of natural wisdom. And with wresting the scripture unto their own purpose clean contrary unto the process, order and meaning of the text, and so delude them in descanting upon it with allegories, and amaze them expounding it in many senses before the unlearned lay people (when it hath but one simple literal sense whose light the owls cannot abide) that though thou feel in thine heart and art sure how that all is false that they say, yet couldst thou not solve their subtle riddles. Which thing only moved me to translate the new testament. Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: for else whatsoever truth is taught them, these enemies of all truth quench it again, partly with the smoke of their bottomless pit whereof thou readest Apocalypse ix.{9} that is, with apparent reasons of sophistry, and traditions of their own making, founded without ground of scripture, and partly in juggling with the text, expounding it in such a sense as is impossible to gather of the text, if thou see the process, order, and meaning thereof. And even in the bishop of London's house I intended to have done it. For when I was so turmoiled in the country where I was that I could no longer there dwell (the process whereof were too long here to rehearse) I this wise thought in myself, this I suffer because the priests of the country be unlearned, as God it knoweth there are a full ignorant sort which have seen no more Latin than that they read in their portesses and missals which yet many of them can scarcely read, (except it be Albertus de secretis mulierum in which yet, though they be never so sorrily learned, they pore day and night, and make notes therein and all to teach the midwives as they say, and Linwode a book of constitutions to gather tithes, mortuaries, offerings, customs, and other pillage, which they call, not theirs, but God's part and the duty of holy church, to discharge their consciences withall: for they are bound that they shall not diminish, but increase all things unto the uttermost of their powers) and therefore (because they are thus unlearned, thought I) when they come together to the ale house, which is their preaching place, they affirm that my sayings are heresy. And besides that they add to of their own heads which I never spake, as the manner is to prolong the tale to short the time withall, and accused me secretly to the chancellor and other the bishop's officers. And indeed, when I came before the chancellor, he threatened me grievously, and reviled me, and rated me as though I had been a dog, and laid to my charge whereof there could be none accuser brought forth, (as their manner is not to bring forth the accuser) and yet all the priests of the country were the same day there. As I this thought the bishop of London came to my remembrance whom Erasmus (whose tongue maketh of little gnats great elephants and lifteth up above the stars whosoever giveth him a little exhibition) praiseth exceedingly among other in his annotations on the new testament for his great learning. Then thought I, if I might come to this man's service, I were happy. And so I gat me to London, and, thorow the acquaintance of my master came to sir Harry Gilford, the king's grace's controller, and bought him an oration of Isocrates which I had translated out of Greek into English, and desired him to speak unto my lord of London for me, which he also did as he shewed me, and willed me to write a pistel to my lord, and to go to him myself which I also did, and delivered my pistel to a servant of his own, one William Hebylthwaite, a man of mine old acquaintance. But God which knoweth what is within hypocrites, saw that I was beguiled, and that that counsel was not the next way unto my purpose. And therefore he gat me no favour in my lord's sight. Whereupon my lord answered me, his house was full, he had more than he could well find, and advised me to seek in London, where he said I could not lack a service. And so in London I abode almost a year, and marked the course of the world, and heard our praters, I would say our preachers how they boasted themselves and their high authority, and beheld the pomp of our prelates, and how busied they were as they yet are, to set peace and unity in the world (though it be not possible for them that walk in darkness to continue long in peace, for they cannot but either stumble or dash themselves at one thing or another that shall clean unquiet all together) and saw things whereof I defer to speak at this time and understood at the last not only that there was no room in my lord of London's palace to translate the new testament, but also that there was no place to do it in all England, as experience doth now openly declare. Under what manner therefore should I now submit this book to be corrected and amended of them which can suffer nothing to be well? Or what protestation should I make in such a matter unto our prelates those stubborn Nimrods which so mightily fight against God, and resist his holy spirit, enforcing with all craft and subtlety to quench the light of the everlasting testament, promises, and appointment made between God and us: and heaping the fierce wrath of God upon all princes and rulers, mocking them with false feigned names of hypocrisy, and serving their lusts at all points, and dispensing with them even of the very laws of God, of which Christ himself testifieth, Matt. v.{5} that not so much as one tittle thereof may perish, or be broken. And of which the prophet saith, Psalm cxviij.{118} Thou hast commanded thy laws to be kept meod, that is in Hebrew exceedingly, with all diligence, might and power and have made them so mad with their juggling charms and crafty persuasions that they think it a full satisfaction for all their wicked lying, to torment such as tell them truth, and to burn the word of their souls' health, and slay whosoever believe thereon. Notwitstonding yet I submit this book and all other that I have either made or translated, or shall in time to come, (if it be God's will that I shall further labour in his harvest) unto all them that submit themselves unto the word of God, to be corrected of them, yea and moreover to be disallowed and also burnt, if it seem worthy when they have examined it with the Hebrew, so that they first put forth of their own translating another that is more correct. |
| Jeremiah 13:7-27 |
| 7Then went I to Euphrates, and digged up, and took the breech from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the breech was corrupt, so that it was profitable for nothing. 8Then said the LORD unto me: 9Thus sayeth the LORD: Even so will I corrupt the pride of Judah, and the high mind of Jerusalem. 10This people is a wicked people, they will not hear my word, they follow the wicked imaginations of their own heart, and hang upon strange gods, them have they served and worshiped: and therefore they shall be as this breech, that serveth for nothing. 11For as straightly as a breech lieth upon a man's loins, so straightly did I bind the whole house of Israel, and the whole house of Juda unto me, sayeth the LORD: that they might be my people: that they might have a glorious name: that they might be in honour: but they would not obey me. 12Therefore lay this riddle before them, and say: Thus sayeth the LORD God of Israel: Every pot shall be filled with wine. And they shall say: thinkest thou we know not, that every pot shall be filled with wine? 13Then shalt thou say unto them: Thus sayeth the LORD: Behold, I shall fill all the inhabiters of this land with drunkenness, the kings that sit upon David's stool, the Priests and Prophets, with all that dwell at Jerusalem. 14And I will shoot them one against another, yea the fathers against the sons, sayeth the LORD. I will not pardon them, I will not spare them, nor have pity upon them: but destroy them. 15Be obedient, give ear, take no disdain at it, for it is the LORD himself that speaketh. 16Honour the LORD your God herein, or he take his light from you, and or ever your feet stumble in darkness at the hill: lest when ye look for the light, he turn it into the shadow and darkness of death. 17But if ye will not hear me, that give you secret warning, I will mourn from my whole heart for your stubbornness. Piteously will I weep, and the tears shall gush out of mine eyes. For the LORD's flock shall be carried away captive. 18Tell the king and the rulers: Humble yourselves, set you down low, for the crown of your glory shall fall from your head. 19The cities toward the south shall be shut up, and no man shall open them. All Juda shall be carried away captive, so that none shall remain. 20Lift up your eyes, and behold them, that come from the North: Like a fat flock shall they fall upon thee. 21To whom will thou make thy moan, when they come upon thee? for thou hast taught them thy self, and made them masters over thee. Shall not sorrow come upon thee, as on a woman travailing with child? 22And if thou wouldest say then in thine heart: Wherefore come these things upon me? Even for the multitude of thy blasphemies, shall thy hinder parts and thy feet be discovered. 23For like as the man of Inde may change his skin, and the cat of the mountains her spots: so may ye that be exercised in evil, do good. 24Therefore will I scatter you, like as the stubble that is taken away with the south wind. 25This shall be your portion, and the portion of your measure, where with ye shall be rewarded of me, sayeth the LORD: because ye have forgotten me, and put your trust in deceitful things. 26Therefore shall I turn thy clothes over thy head, and discover thy thighs, that thy privates may be seen, 27thy advoutry, thy deadly malice, thy beastliness, and thy shameful whoredom. For upon the fields and hills I have seen thy abominations. Woe be unto thee (O Jerusalem) when wilt thou ever be cleansed any more? |
| 2 Timothy 2:11-21 |
| 11It is a true saying: If we be dead with him, we also shall live with him; 12If we be patient, we shall also reign with him; If we deny him, he also shall deny us; 13If we believe not, yet abideth he faithful; He cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, and testify before the Lord, that they strive not about words, which is to no profit, but to pervert the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself laudable unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, dividing the word of truth justly. 16Unghostly and vain voices pass over. For they shall increase unto greater ungodliness, 17and their words shall fret even as doth a canker: of whose number is Hymeneos and Philetos, 18which as concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and do destroy the faith of divers persons. 19But the sure ground of God remaineth, and hath this seal: the Lord knoweth them that are his, and let every man that calleth on the name of Christ, depart from iniquity. 20Notwithstanding in a great house are not only vessels of gold and of silver: but also of wood and of earth: Some for honour, and some unto dishonour. 21 If a man purge himself from such fellows, he shall be a vessel sanctified unto honour meet for the Lord, and prepared unto all good works. |
Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:13 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Act 13:5 And when they were come to Solamine, they shewed the word of God in the synagogues, unto{of} the jews. And they had John to their minister.
Act 13:6 When they had gone over all{thorowout} the Isle unto the city of Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet which was a jew, Act 13:7 named Barjesu,{Bariesu} which was with the ruler of the country one Sergius Paulus a prudent man.<man of understanding> The same ruler called unto him Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God. Act 13:8 [But] The sorcerer Elemas (for so was his name by interpretation) withstood{stood} them, and sought to turn away the ruler from the faith. Act 13:9 Then Saul which also is called Paul being full of the holy ghost, set his eyes on him, and said: Act 13:10 O full of all subtlety<futility> and deceitfulness [and] the child of the devil, and the enemy of all righteousness thou ceasest not to pervert the straight ways of the Lord. Act 13:11 And now behold the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind and not see the sun for a season. And immediately{there} fell on him a mist and a darkness; And he went about seeking, them that should lead him by the hand. Act 13:12 Then the ruler when he saw what had happened, believed, and wondered at the doctrine of the Lord.
Master William Tyndale well said in his prologue to the first English Pentateuch translated from the Hebrew:
2Co 5:20 Now then are we messengers in the room of Christ: even as though God did beseech you thorow us:{exhorted by us} So pray we you<We beseek you now therefore> in Christ's stead, that ye be at one with God: 2Co 5:21 for he hath made him to be sin for us, which knew no sin, that we by his means should be that righteousness which before God is allowed.{aloved} 1Co 1:26 Brethren look on your calling how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many of high degree are called: 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world, to confound the wise. And [God] hath chosen the weak things of the world, to confound things which are mighty. 1Co 1:28 And vile things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen yea and things of no reputation, for to bring to nought things of reputation, 1Co 1:29 that no flesh should rejoice in his presence. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye made safe <saved> thorow faith, and that not of your selves: For it is the gift of God, Eph 2:9 and cometh not of works, lest any man should boast himself. Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesu unto good works, unto the which God ordained us before, that we should walk in them.
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| 16Jesus answered them, and said: My doctrine is not mine: but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God: or whether I spake of myself. 18He that speaketh of himself, seeketh his own praise. But he that seeketh his praise that sent him, he is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. |
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| and have made them so mad with their juggling charms and crafty persuasions that they think it a full satisfaction for all their wicked lying, to torment such as tell them truth, |
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:43 am| Heman wrote: |
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In addition, in the Love of the 25 Only God our Savior, through our Lord Jesus Christ be glory, majesty, strength and authority before all the ages, both now and forever. I ask: Why does your translation of verse 25 not include "our Lord Jesus Christ? Did you read what you posted? |
| Jude 1:25 |
| that is to say, to God our saviour ([thorow Iesus Christ oure lord]) which only is wise, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, ([before all worldes]) now and for ever Amen. Here ends the epistle of Judas |
| Luke 6:39-45 |
| 39And he put forth a similitude unto them: Can the blind lead the blind? Do they not both then fall into the ditch? 40The disciple is not above his master. Every man shall be perfect, even as his master is. 41Why seest thou a mote in thy brother's eye, and considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 42Other how canst thou say to thy brother: Brother let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye: when thou perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Hypocrite, cast out the beam out of thine own eye first, and then shalt thou see perfectly, to pull out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 43It is not a good tree that bringeth forth evil fruit: Neither is that an evil tree, that bringeth forth good fruit. 44For every tree is known by his fruit. Neither of thorns gather men figs, nor of bushes gather they grapes. 45A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good. And the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart, bringeth forth that which is evil. For of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. |
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| John 9:39 Jesus said: I am come unto judgement, into this world: that they which see not, might see, and they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the pharisees which were with him, heard these words and said unto him: Are we then blind? 41 Jesus said unto them, if ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say we see, therefore your sin remaineth. |
Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:04 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||
Yes i did read. Regardless there's no direct quote of Jude on what i posted. Furthermore it is not my translation but a faithful restoration of WT's and devout friends' work. And yes it does include Iesus Christ our Lord! i.e. For everybody that have an eye to lo and behold:
It is clearly bracketed because it resembles Thomas Cranmer's edition of William Tyndale's New Testament translation (in the authorised Great Bible) that includes the Old Latin renderings.
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| that is to say, to God our saviour ([thorow Iesus Christ oure lord]) which only is wise, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, ([before all worldes]) now and for ever Amen. Here ends the epistle of Judas |
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:54 am| Heman wrote: |
| I humbly beg your pardon! I thought the "italics" were excluded! |
| 1 John 1:9-10 |
| 9If we knowledge our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. |
| Isaiah 55:7-13 |
| 7Let the ungodly man forsake his ways and the unrighteous his imaginations, and turn again unto the LORD: so shall he be merciful unto him: and to our God, for he is ready to forgive. 8For thus sayeth the LORD: my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways, 9but as far as the heavens are higher than the earth, so far do my ways exceed yours, and my thoughts yours. 10And like as the rain and snow cometh down from heaven, and returneth not thither again, but watereth the earth, maketh it fruitful and green, that it may give corn and bread unto the sower: 11So the word also that cometh out of my mouth shall not turn again void unto me, but shall accomplish my will and prosper in the thing, whereto I sent it. 12And so shall ye go forth with joy, and be lead with peace. The mountains and hills shall sing with you for joy, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13For thorns, there shall grow Fir trees, and the Myrtle tree in the stead of briers. And this shall be done to the praise of the LORD, and for an everlasting token, that shall not be taken away. |
| Heman wrote: |
| Here is one for you:
1:19 Because in him it was thought good 22 to present you saints, and blameless and irreproachable in his presence, 23 creation -- |
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| 1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar: but he that denieth that Jesus is Christ? he<The same> is the antichrist that denieth the father and the son. |
| Colossians 1:19-23 |
| 19For it pleased the father that in him should all fullness dwell, 20and by him to reconcile all things unto himself, and to set at peace by him thorow the blood of his cross both things in heaven and things in earth. 21And you (which were in times past strangers and enemies, because your minds were set in evil works) hath he now reconciled 22in the body of his flesh thorow death, to make you holy, and such as no man could complain on, and without fault in his own sight, 23if ye continue grounded and stablished in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, whereof ye have heard, how that it is preached among all creatures, which are under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. |
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:49 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||||||
Seeing i'm just a fool in this world.. you ought to rather beg God's pardon!
Pardon me if I'm here not to please itchy ears nor tickle them. (Ok - perhaps just a bit of tingle;) Nevertheless, how and what the Scriptures say, it, expresses singly without any bamboozled language syntax. ----------------------
Taking the father out renders the passage completely oblivious (even irreproachable) to within whom he is.
Of course the correct translation of the original tongue (from the martyrs) is:
There's a huge difference between old texts and the true manuscripts testimony as a holy whole (withstanding the test of time) provided in the sovereign providence of God. Yea at a very high price since Christ! |
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| Taking the father out renders the passage completely oblivious (even irreproachable) to within whom he is. |
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| 19For it pleased the father that in him should all fullness dwell, 20and by him to reconcile all things unto himself, and to set at peace by him thorow the blood of his cross both things in heaven and things in earth. |
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| There's a huge difference between old texts and the true manuscripts testimony as a holy whole (withstanding the test of time) provided in the sovereign providence of God. Yea at a very high price since Christ! |
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| 23if ye continue grounded and stablished in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, whereof ye have heard, how that it is preached among all creatures, which are under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. |
Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:32 pm| Quote: | ||||
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| Joh 19:20 This title<superscription> read many of the jews. For the place where Jesus was crucified, was nigh to the city. And it was written in hebrew, greek and latin. |
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ευχαριστουμεν τω θεω tsbκαι πατρι του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου παντοτε περι υμων προσευχομενοι ακουσαντες την πιστιν υμων εν χριστω ιησου και την αγαπην aην aεχετε tsbτην εις παντας τους αγιους δια την ελπιδα την αποκειμενην υμιν εν τοις ουρανοις ην προηκουσατε εν τω λογω της αληθειας του ευαγγελιου του παροντος εις υμας καθως και εν παντι τω κοσμω tsbκαι εστιν καρποφορουμενον aκαι b[και aαυξανομενον bαυξανομενον] καθως και εν υμιν αφ ης ημερας ηκουσατε και επεγνωτε την χαριν του θεου εν αληθεια καθως tsbκαι εμαθετε απο επαφρα του αγαπητου συνδουλου ημων ος εστιν πιστος υπερ υμων διακονος του χριστου ο και δηλωσας ημιν την υμων αγαπην εν πνευματι δια τουτο και ημεις αφ ης ημερας ηκουσαμεν ου παυομεθα υπερ υμων προσευχομενοι και αιτουμενοι ινα πληρωθητε την επιγνωσιν του θεληματος αυτου εν παση σοφια και συνεσει πνευματικη περιπατησαι tsbυμας αξιως του κυριου εις πασαν αρεσκειαν εν παντι εργω αγαθω καρποφορουντες και αυξανομενοι aτη aεπιγνωσει tsbεις tsbτην tsbεπιγνωσιν του θεου εν παση δυναμει δυναμουμενοι κατα το κρατος της δοξης αυτου εις πασαν υπομονην και μακροθυμιαν μετα χαρας ευχαριστουντες τω πατρι τω ικανωσαντι aυμας tsbημας εις την μεριδα του κληρου των αγιων εν τω φωτι ος ερρυσατο ημας εκ της εξουσιας του σκοτους και μετεστησεν εις την βασιλειαν του υιου της αγαπης αυτου εν ω εχομεν την απολυτρωσιν b[δια tsδια tsbτου tsbαιματος bαυτου] tsαυτου την αφεσιν των αμαρτιων ος εστιν εικων του θεου του αορατου πρωτοτοκος πασης κτισεως οτι εν αυτω εκτισθη τα παντα tsbτα εν τοις ουρανοις και tsbτα επι της γης τα ορατα και τα αορατα ειτε θρονοι ειτε κυριοτητες ειτε αρχαι ειτε εξουσιαι τα παντα δι αυτου και εις αυτον εκτισται και αυτος εστιν προ παντων και τα παντα εν αυτω συνεστηκεν και αυτος εστιν η κεφαλη του σωματος της εκκλησιας ος εστιν αρχη πρωτοτοκος εκ των νεκρων ινα γενηται εν πασιν αυτος πρωτευων οτι εν αυτω ευδοκησεν παν το πληρωμα κατοικησαι και δι αυτου αποκαταλλαξαι τα παντα εις αυτον ειρηνοποιησας δια του αιματος του σταυρου αυτου a[δι tsbδι aαυτου] tsbαυτου ειτε τα επι της γης ειτε τα bεπι atsεν τοις ουρανοις και υμας ποτε οντας απηλλοτριωμενους και εχθρους τη διανοια εν τοις εργοις τοις πονηροις νυνι δε αποκατηλλαξεν εν τω σωματι της σαρκος αυτου δια του θανατου παραστησαι υμας αγιους και αμωμους και ανεγκλητους κατενωπιον αυτου aει aγε tsbειγε επιμενετε τη πιστει τεθεμελιωμενοι και εδραιοι και μη μετακινουμενοι απο της ελπιδος του ευαγγελιου ου ηκουσατε του κηρυχθεντος εν παση tsbτη κτισει τη υπο τον ουρανον ου εγενομην εγω παυλος διακονος
http://faithofgod.net/Greek/TaggedGr/ |
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| Interesting to note that the 4th Century Byzantine manuscript has επι instead of εν at 1:20 as if implying a deeper meaning.
Word: επι Strong: G1909 Transliter: epi a primary preposition; properly, meaning superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of distribution (with the genitive case), i.e. over, upon, etc.; of rest (with the dative case) at, on, etc.; of direction (with the accusative case) towards, upon, etc.:--about (the times), above, after, against, among, as long as (touching), at, beside, X have charge of, (be-, (where-))fore, in (a place, as much as, the time of, -to), (because) of, (up-)on (behalf of), over, (by, for) the space of, through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), with. In compounds it retains essentially the same import, at, upon, etc. (literally or figuratively). ---- Word: εν Strong: G1722 Transliter: en a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between 1519 and 1537); "in," at, (up-)on, by, etc.:--about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-)by (+ all means), for (... sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-)in(-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-)on, (open-)ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, (speedi-)ly, X that, X there(-in, -on), through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), under, when, where(-with), while, with(-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) preposition. Word: εις Pronounc: ice Strong: G1519 Transliter: eis a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases:--(abundant-)ly, against, among, as, at, (back-)ward, before, by, concerning, + continual, + far more exceeding, for (intent, purpose), fore, + forth, in (among, at, unto, -so much that, -to), to the intent that, + of one mind, + never, of, (up-)on, + perish, + set at one again, (so) that, therefore(-unto), throughout, til, to (be, the end, -ward), (here-)until(-to), ...ward, (where-)fore, with. Often used in composition with the same general import, but only with verbs (etc.) expressing motion (literally or figuratively). Word: εκ Strong: G1537 Transliter: ek or ex ex a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote):--after, among, X are, at, betwixt(-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for(- th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, ...ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with(-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion. |
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| Word: κτισει
Strong: G2937 Transliter: ktisis from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance. |
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building, 1
creation, 2
creature[s], 14
ordinance, 1
things, 1
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:14 amPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:09 am| heman wrote: |
| So sorry, the verses you gave are CREATION:
κτισις 2937 Creation, construction, production; an institution. Ps 104:24 Mk 10:6 13:19 16:15 Rm 1:20,25 8:19?22,39 2Co 5:17 Gal 6:15 Col 1:15,23 Heb 4:13 9:11 1P 2:13 2P 3:4 Rev 3:14 THESE ARE THE VERSES FOR CREATURE:κτισμα 2938 A creation, a creature. 1Ti 4:4 Js 1:18 Rev 5:13 8:9 |
| Code: |
| Word: κτισει
Strong: G2937 Transliter: ktisis from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance. |
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| Word: κτισει
Pronounc: ktis'-is Strong: G2937 Orig: from G2936 Use: TDNT-3:1000,481 Noun Feminine HE Strong: H1952 H7075 1) the act of founding, establishing, building etc 1a) the act of creating, creation 1b) creation i.e. thing created 1b1) of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation 1b1a) anything created 1b1b) after a rabbinical usage (by which a man converted from idolatry to Judaism was called) 1b1c) the sum or aggregate of things created 1c) institution, ordinance |
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| Word: κτισμα
Pronounc: ktis'-mah Strong: G2938 Transliter: ktisma from 2936; an original formation (concretely), i.e. product (created thing):--creature. Modern Strong G2938 Use: TDNT-3:1000,481 Noun Neuter 1) thing founded 2) created thing |
| Code: |
| Word: κτιςω
Pronounc: ktid'-zo Strong: G2936 Transliter: ktizo probably akin to 2932 (through the idea of proprietorship of the manufacturer); to fabricate, i.e. found (form originally):--create, Creator, make. Modern Strong: G2936 Orig: probably akin to G2932 (through the idea of proprietor-ship of the manufacturer) Use: TDNT-3:1000,481 Verb HE Strong: H1254 H3245 H3335 H3559 H5975 H7069 H7931 1) to make habitable, to people, a place, region, island 1a) to found a city, colony, state 2) to create 2a) of God creating the worlds 2b) to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform Word: ktaomai Pronounc: ktah'-om-ahee Strong: G2932 Transliter: ktaomai a primary verb; to get, i.e. acquire (by any means; own):--obtain, possess, provide, purchase. Modern Strong: G2932 Word: ktaomai HE Strong: H1167 H1961 H3205 H3425 H3947 H4376 H5157 H6213 H7069 H7408 1) to acquire, get, or procure a thing for one's self, to possess 1a) to marry a wife |
| 1 Timothy 4:1-5 |
| 1The spirit speaketh evidently that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, and shall give heed unto spirits of error, 2and devilish doctrine of them which speak false thorow hypocrisy, and have their consciences marked with an hot iron, 3forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with giving thanks, of them which believe, and know the truth, 4for all the creatures of God are good: and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God, and prayer. |
| James 1:18 |
| Of his own will begat he us with the word of life, that we should be the first of his creatures. |
| Revelation 5:13 |
| And all creatures, which are in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and in the sea, and all that are in them heard I saying: blessing, honour, glory, and power be unto him, that sitteth upon the seat, and unto the lamb for evermore. |
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:19 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||||||
Actually strong's number G2937 says it can also mean creature according to it's definition:
Even according to the modernly updated Strong's numbers it says:
So what if there's another word for creature like G2938:
In this case doesn't mean that there's no other words that can't resemble the same. And in translating one language to another, there's many such cases.. Specially taking into account that both strongs' G2938 & G2937 have the same root G2936:
Besides, the definition of creature also states it as being anything created, whether animate or inanimate. Other than English I fluently speak more than one language (Portuguese and Spanish that have it's unique expressions) and thus understand how that in translation William Tyndale had a great grasp on the original tongues to express it's true English significance depending on the passage. And of course in Christ he was at liberty to thus express it. Yea such as:
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| Jadmin wrote: | ||
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| Jadmin wrote: | ||
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:55 pm| Code: |
| Word: κτισει
Strong: G2937 Transliter: ktisis from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance. |
| Quote: |
| creature can also mean:
RHUD 2. anything created, whether animate or inanimate. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creature |
| Quote: |
| creation can also mean:
RHUD 6. creatures collectively. AHD 3b. All creatures or a class of creatures. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/creation |
| Quote: |
| creature denotes the whole creation in Rom. 8:39; Col. 1:15; Rev. 5:13; the whole human race in Mark 16:15; Rom. 8:19-22. |
| Quote: |
| ? When I had translated the new testament, I added a pistel unto the latter end, in which I desired them that were learned to amend if ought were found amiss. But our malicious and wily hypocrites which are so stubborn and hard hearted in their wicked abominations that it is not possible for them to amend any thing at all (as we see by daily experience, when both their livings and doings are rebuked with the truth) say, some of them that it is impossible to translate the scripture into English, some that it is not lawful for the lay people to have it in their mother tongue, some, that it would make them all heretics, as it would no doubt from many things which they of long time have falsely taught, and that is the whole cause wherefore they forbid it, though they other cloaks pretend. And some or rather every one, say that it would make them rise against the king, whom they themselves (unto their damnation) never yet obeyed. And lest the temporal rulers should see their falsehood, if the scripture came to light, causeth them so to lie. And as for my translation in which they affirm unto the lay people (as I have heard say) to be I wot not how many thousand heresies, so that it cannot be mended or correct, they have yet taken so great pain to examine it, and to compare it unto that they would fain have it and to their own imaginations and juggling terms, and to have somewhat to rail at, and under that cloak to blaspheme the truth, that they might with as little labour (as I suppose) have translated the most part of the bible. For they which in times past were wont to look on no more scripture than they found in their Duns or such like devilish doctrine, have yet now so narrowly looked on my translation, that there is not so much as one i therein if it lack a tittle over his head, but they have noted it, and number it unto the ignorant people for an heresy. Finally in this they be all agreed, to drive you from the knowledge of the scripture, and that ye shall not have the text thereof in the mother tongue, and to keep the world still in darkness, to the intent they might sit in the consciences of the people, thorow vain superstition and false doctrine, to satisfy their filthy lusts, their proud ambition, and unsatiable covetousness, and to exalt their own honour above king and emperor, yea and above God himself.
? A thousand books had they lever to be put forth against their abominable doings and doctrine, than that the scripture should come to light. For as long as they may keep that down, they will so darken the right way with the mist of their sophistry, and so tangle them that either rebuke or despise their abominations with arguments of philosophy and with wordily {worldly} similitudes and apparent reasons of natural wisdom. And with wresting the scripture unto their own purpose clean contrary unto the process, order and meaning of the text, and so delude them in descanting upon it with allegories, and amaze them expounding it in many senses before the unlearned lay people (when it hath but one simple literal sense whose light the owls cannot abide) that though thou feel in thine heart and art sure how that all is false that they say, yet couldst thou not solve their subtle riddles. ? Which thing only moved me to translate the new testament. Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: for else whatsoever truth is taught them, these enemies of all truth quench it again, partly with the smoke of their bottomless pit whereof thou readest Apocalypse ix.{9} that is, with apparent reasons of sophistry, and traditions of their own making, founded without ground of scripture, and partly in juggling with the text, expounding it in such a sense as is impossible to gather of the text, if thou see the process, order, and meaning thereof. |
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:16 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||||
Strong's dictionary was right about G2937 to also mean creature among other meanings.
Just lookup the definition for "creature" and "creation".
Thus even according to Easton's 1897 dictionary:
The significance of Creature and Creation (in English) can be synonymous depending on how it's used, so that is not a problem at all. Thus there's liberty to use that word in a sentence depending on how it's expressed. And it may also refer to a plurality or singularity depending on the passage. Ask any interpreter, and will tell you that it's impossible to always have the same word syntax for an exact word translation because it does not always convey the same right expression for the given language and it's phraseology. In 1530 WT adverted about such dire dangers of those judging things so prematurely; when he made mention on his prologue to the Pentateuch:
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:39 pmPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:14 pm| JAdmin wrote: |
| For the wrath of God of heaven appeareth against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men which withhold the truth in unrighteousness, seeing that that, which may be known of God, is manifest among them. For God did shew it unto them.
-Romans 1:18-19 ? Iudas the servant of Iesus Christ, the brother of Iames. To them which are called and sanctified in God the father, and preserved in Christ Iesus. Mercy unto you, and peace and love be multiplied. ? Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common health: it was needful for me to write unto you, to exhort you, that ye should continually labour in the faith, which was once given unto the saints. For there are certain craftily crept in, of which it was written aforetime unto such judgement. They are ungodly, and turn the grace of our Lord God unto wantonness, And deny God the only Lord, and our Lord Iesus Christ. ? My mind is therefore to put you in remembrance, for as much as ye once know this, how that the Lord (after that he had delivered the people out of Egypt) destroyed them which afterward believed not: The angels also, which kept not their first estate: but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day: even as Zodom, and Gomor, and the cities about them (which in like manner defiled themselves, with fornication, and followed strange flesh) are set forth for an example, and suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise these dreamers defile the flesh, despise rulers, and speak evil of them that are in authority. ? Yet Michael the archangel (when he strove against the devil, and disputed the body of Moses) durst not give railing sentence, but said: The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not. In those things which they know naturally (as beasts which are without reason) they corrupt themselves. Woe be unto them, for they have followed the way of Cain, and are spilt in the error of Balaam for lucre's sake, and are cast away in the treason of Core. ? These are spots which of your kindness feast together, without fear, feeding themselves. Clouds they are without water, carried about of winds: Trees rotten in autumn, unfruitfull, twice dead, and plucked up by the rootes. They are raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame. They are wandering stars, to whom is reserved the mist of darkness for ever. ? Enoch the seventh from Adam prophesied before of such saying. Behold, the Lord shall come with thousands of saints, to give judgement against all men, and to rebuke all that are ungodly among them, of all their ungodly deeds, which they have ungodly committed, and of all their cruel speakings, which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. ? These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts, whose mouth's speak proud things. They have men in great reverence because of advantage. But ye beloved remember the words which were spoken before of the Apostles of our Lord Iesus Christ, how that they told you that there should be beguilers in the last time, which should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These are makers of sects, naturall, having no spirit. ? But ye dearly beloved, edify yourselves in your most wholy faith, praying in the wholy ghost, and keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Iesus Christ, unto eternal life. And have compassion on some, separating them: and other save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, and hate the filthy vesture of the flesh. ? Unto him that is able to keep you, that ye faule not, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with joy, that is to say, to God our saviour which only is wise, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, now and for ever Amen. |
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:23 am| Heman wrote: |
| (WT) Eph 3:8 Unto me the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach among the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
3:9 and to give light top all men, that they might know what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God which made (2936)all things {Not in the Originals} thorow Jesus Christ, 3:10 to the intent, that now unto the rulers and powers in heaven might be known by the congregation the manyfold wisdom of God 3:14For this cause I bow my knees unto the father {Not in the Originals} of our Lord Jesus Christ, 3:15{Not in the Originals} which is father over all that is called father In heaven and in earth, that he would grant you according to the riches of his glory, (KJV)Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created (2936) all things {Not in the Originals}by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 14 ? For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father{Not in the Originals} of our Lord Jesus Christ,15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, |
| Psalms 100:5 |
| For the LORD is gracious, his mercy is everlasting, and his truth endureth from generation to generation. |
| Heman wrote: |
| Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you contrary to that ye have received, let him be a victim devoted for destruction. thorow Jesus Christ, |
| Galatians 1:9-10 |
| 9As I said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other thing unto you, than that ye have received, hold him accursed. 10Seek I now the favour of men, or of God? Other go I about to please men? If I studied to please men, I were not the servant of Christ. |
| Ephesians 3:8-21 |
| 8Unto me the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach among the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to give light to all men, that they might know what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God which made all things thorow Jesus Christ, 10to the intent, that now unto the rulers and powers in heaven might be known by the congregation the manyfold wisdom of God, 11according to that eternal purpose, which he purposed in Christ Jesu our Lord, 12by whom we are bold to draw nigh in that trust, which we have by faith on him. 13Wherefore I desire, that ye faint not because of mine tribulations which I suffer for you: which is your praise. 14For this cause I bow my knees unto the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which is father over all that is called father In heaven and in earth, that he would grant you according to the riches of his glory, 16that ye may be strengthened with might by his spirit in the inner man, 17that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, that ye being rooted and grounded in love, 18might be able to comprehend with all saints, what is that breadth and length, depth and height: 19and to know what is the love of Christ, which love passeth knowledge: that ye might be fulfilled with all manner of fullness which cometh of God. 20Unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly, above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21be praise in the congregation by Jesus Christ, thorow out all generations from time to time. Amen. |
| Isaiah 43:7 |
| Namely, all those that be called after my name: For them have I created, fashioned, and made for mine honour. |
| heman wrote: |
| Why should we know that the words spoken were CREATION?
Ro 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. |
| Romans 1:18-19 |
| 18For the wrath of God of heaven appeareth against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men which withhold the truth in unrighteousness, 19seeing that that, which may be known of God, is manifest among them. For God did shew it unto them. |
| John 9:41 |
| Jesus said unto them, if ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say we see, therefore your sin remaineth. |
| 1 Corinthians 3:16-23 |
| 16Are ye not ware that ye are the temple of God, and how that the spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which temple are ye. 18Let no man deceive himself. If any man seem wise among you, let him be a fool in this world, that he may be wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: he compasseth the wise in their craftiness. 20And again, God knoweth the thoughts of the wise that they be vain. 21Therefore let no man rejoice in men. For all things are yours, 22whether it be Paul, other Apollo, either Cephas: whether it be the world, either life, either death, whether they be present things or things to come: all are yours, 23and ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's. |
| Ephesians 6:17-20 |
| 17And take the helmet of health, and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, 18and pray always with all manner prayer and supplication: and that in the spirit: and watch thereunto with all instance and supplication for all saints, 19and for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to utter the secrets of the gospel, 20whereof I am a messenger in bonds, that therein I may speak freely, as it becometh me to speak. |
| Galatians 1:10-12 |
| 10Seek I now the favour of men, or of God? Other go I about to please men? If I studied to please men, I were not the servant of Christ. 11I certify you brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me, was not after the manner of men, 12neither received I it of man, neither was I taught it: but received it by the revelation of Jesus Christ. |
| Isaiah 55:8-13 |
| 8For thus sayeth the LORD: my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways, 9but as far as the heavens are higher than the earth, so far do my ways exceed yours, and my thoughts yours. 10And like as the rain and snow cometh down from heaven, and returneth not thither again, but watereth the earth, maketh it fruitful and green, that it may give corn and bread unto the sower: 11So the word also that cometh out of my mouth shall not turn again void unto me, but shall accomplish my will and prosper in the thing, whereto I sent it. 12And so shall ye go forth with joy, and be lead with peace. The mountains and hills shall sing with you for joy, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13For thorns, there shall grow Fir trees, and the Myrtle tree in the stead of briers. And this shall be done to the praise of the LORD, and for an everlasting token, that shall not be taken away. |
| WT wrote: |
| Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: |
| Heman wrote: |
| Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. |
| Genesis 1:1 |
| In the beginning God created heaven and earth. |
| Code: |
| 1Pe 1:3 Blessed be God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which thorow his abundant mercy begat{according to his great mercy hath begotten} us again unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from death,{from the dead}
1Pe 1:4 to enjoy an inheritance immortal,{uncorruptible} and undefiled, and that putrifieth(MT: perisheth) not,{which never shall fade away} reserved in heaven for you 1Pe 1:5 which are kept by the power of God thorow faith, unto health, which health{salvation, which salvation} is prepared all ready to be shewed in the last time, 1Pe 1:6 in the which time ye shall rejoice, though now for a season (if need require) ye are in heaviness, thorow many fold temptations, 1Pe 1:7 that your faith once tried being much more precious than gold that perisheth (though it be tried with fire) might be found unto laud, glory, and honour, when Jesus Christ shall appear:{at the appearing of Jesus Christ:} 1Pe 1:8 whom ye have not seen and yet love him, in whom even now, though ye see him not, yet ye believe, and rejoice with joy ineffable,{unspeakable} and glorious:{unoutspeakable and glorious joy} 1Pe 1:9 receiving the end of your faith, the health{salvation} of your souls. 1Pe 1:10 Of which health,{salvation} have the prophets enquired, and sought,{searched} which prophesied of the grace that should come unto you, 1Pe 1:11 searching when, or at what time the spirit of Christ which was in them should signify, which spirit testified before, the passions that should come unto Christ, and the glory that should follow after: 1Pe 1:12 unto which prophets it was declared, that not unto themselves, but unto us, they should minister the things which are now shewed unto you, of them which by{thorow} the holy ghost sent down from heaven, have preached unto you the things which the angels desire to behold. |
Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:11 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Only because somebody says something as if it is a fact, doesn't mean that it's really a fact!
Yea, for ensample:
Even if it were "Not in the Originals"; do you deny it's verity? (Ephesians 3:9 was already discussed thorowly in post: take heed & beware - be not deceived) Moreover a statement such as "Not in the Originals" (implying the exact manuscripts as initially penned) is not honestly allowed because it is utterly frivolous; yea since nobody has such "originals" (other than the most High) to compare and call it as such. ESPecially manuscripts all of a sudden dug up and assumed to be anything better than where and whom it was found by. Rather, on the right hand, manuscripts like the Old Latin Italic, Greek Byzantine 4th Century and Erasmus faithful compilation is backed up by the test of time faithfully passed from one generation to another.
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What manuscript renders such a thing after the Galatians 1:9 verse!? Now in that context or lack thereof it may be said that it's likely "Not in the Originals". Notwithstanding, I would not deny it's verity when correctly perceived. Ironic how the verse following says:
Even:
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Please do not include me in the "we know".. because the verse before it says:
For thus saith the Lord:
All i know is:
Like the rest of the verses translated into the proper derived English:
Let's suppose the actual penned originals did not have a part, but somehow the Everlasting God the Lord in his sovereign providence alloweth it to be included l8r.. eitherway: Who are we to limit HIS WAYS!
Put thou nothing therefore unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found as a liar. -Proverbs 30:6 |
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:24 am| heman wrote: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Not Jesus or anyone else. Matt 13:(29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. (30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. All of God's saints should heed this warning to watch and pray that the field of our heart not be sown with tares by an adversary. God has bought us with a price and given us His Spirit, making us new creations in Him and heirs the inheritance and eternal life. He expects us to bear fruit in our corner of the field of this world in which He has sowed us. |
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:51 am| Matthew 10:4 |
| Simon of Chane, and Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him. |
| 2 Corinthians 2:9-11 |
| 9For this cause verily did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye should be obedient in all things. 10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also. And verily if I forgive any thing, to whom I forgave it for your sakes forgave I it, in the room of Christ, 11lest Satan should prevent us. For his thoughts are not unknown unto us. |
| heman wrote: |
| Job 24:25 And if it be not so now, who will make me a liar, and make my speech nothing worth? |
| Job 24:18-25 |
| 18The ungodly is very swift: O that his portion also upon earth were swifter than the running water, which suffereth not the shipman to behold the fair and pleasant vineyards. 19O that they (for the wickedness which they have done) were drawn to the hell, sooner than snow melteth at the heat. 20O that all compassion upon them were forgotten: that their dainties were worms, that they were clean put out of remembrance, and utterly hewn down like an unfruitful tree. 21For they maintain the barren, and make them that they can not bear, and unto widows they do no good. 22They pluck down the mighty with their power, and when they themselves are gotten up, they are never without fear, as long as they live. 23And though they might be safe, yet they will not receive it, for their eyes look upon their own ways. 24They are exalted for a little, but shortly are they gone, brought to extreme poverty, and taken out of the way: yea and utterly plucked off, as the ears of corn. 25Is it not so? Who will then reprove me as a liar, and say that my words are nothing worth. |
| Heman wrote: |
| 1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Not Jesus or anyone else. |
| Proverbs 30:4 |
| Who hath climbed up into heaven? Who hath come down from thence? Who hath holden the wind fast in his hand? Who hath comprehended the waters in a garment? Who hath set all the ends of the world? What is his name, or his son's name? Canst thou tell? |
| Ephesians 1:3-8 |
| 3Blessed be God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which hath blessed us with all manner of spiritual blessings in heavenly things by Christ, 4according as he had chosen us in him thorow love, before the foundation of the world was laid, that we should be saints, and without blame in his sight. 5And ordained us before unto him self that we should be chosen to heirs thorow Jesus Christ, according to the pleasure of his will, 6to the praise of his glorious grace, where with he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7By whom we have redemption thorow his blood, that is to say the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace, 8which grace he shed on us abundantly in all wisdom, and prudency. |
| Colossians 1:13-20 |
| 13Which hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear son, 14in whom we have redemption thorow his blood, that is to say, forgiveness of sins, 15which is the image of the invisible God, first begotten before all creatures: 16for by him were all things created, things that are in heaven, and things that are in earth: things visible, and things invisible: whether they be majesty or lordship, either rule or power. 17All things are created by him, and in him, and he is before all things, and in him all things have their being. 18And he is the head of the body, that is to wit of the congregation, he is the beginning and first begotten of the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the father that in him should all fullness dwell, 20and by him to reconcile all things unto himself, and to set at peace by him thorow the blood of his cross both things in heaven and things in earth. |
| heman wrote: |
| Matt 13:(29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. (30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. |
| Heman wrote: |
|
All of God's saints should heed this warning to watch and pray that the field of our heart not be sown with tares by an adversary. God has bought us with a price and given us His Spirit, making us new creations in Him and heirs the inheritance and eternal life. He expects us to bear fruit in our corner of the field of this world in which He has sowed us. |
| John 9:4 |
| I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day. The night cometh, when no man can work. |
| Matthew 12:29-31 |
| 29Either how can a man enter into a mighty man's house, and violently take away his goods, except he first bind the strong man, and then spoil his house? 30He that is not with me, is against me: And he that gathereth not with me, scattereth abroad. 31Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but the blasphemy against the holy ghost, shall not be forgiven unto men. |
| 1 John 4:4 |
| Little children, ye are of God, and have overcome them: for greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. |
| John 8:7 |
| And while they continued asking him, he lifted himself up; And said unto them: let him that is among you without sin, cast the first stone at her. |
| 1 John 1:10 |
| If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. |
| Job 19:25-29 |
| 25For I am sure, that my redeemer liveth, and that I shall rise out of the earth in the latter day: 26that I shall be clothed again with this skin, and see God in my flesh. 27Yea I my self shall behold him, not with other but with these same eyes. My reins are consumed within me, 28when ye say: Why do not we persecute him? We have found an occasion against him. 29But beware of the sword, for the sword will be avenged of wickedness, and be sure, that there is a judgement. |
| Matthew 21:28-31 |
| 28What say ye to this? A certain man had two sons, and came to the elder saying: go and work today in my vineyard. 29He answered and said, I will not: but afterward repented and went. 30Then came he to the second, and said like wise, and he answered and said: I will sir: yet went he not. 31Whether of these two fulfilled their father's will? And they said unto him: The first. Jesus said unto them: Verily I say unto you, that the publicans and the harlots shall come into the kingdom of God before you. |
| 2 Corinthians 13:5-7 |
| 5Prove yourselves whether ye are in the faith or not. Examine your own selves: know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you? except ye be castaways. 6I trust that ye shall know that we are not castaways. 7I desire before God that ye do none evil, not that we should seem commendable: but that ye should do, that which is honest: and let us be counted as lewd persons. |
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:49 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Friend, as the thoughts of Satan were unknown to Simon of Chane, and Judas Iscariot.. so are they unknown unto you according to your demonstration thereof. But I perceive that one of them repented.
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That's exactly how i feal when understood as a whole:
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If that's not rejecting the son, i don't know what is.
Why did God create heaven and earth to begin with? If taken the passage for it's knowledge said in Christ, it'll make perfect sense:
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So be it! ----------------------
Was just thinking about that this evening.. but why change from the post's point flow at hand into a saint's exhortation? Notwithstanding..
Even if I may have as many fleshy tares as KING DAVID, or even ALEXANDER THE GREAT.. that did not stop their faith and neither will that stop my faith in Christ.
YEA WITHOUT CHRIST WE ARE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! All things are lawful unto me: but all things are not profitable. I may do all things: but I will be brought under no man's power. -1Co 6:12 This world rejects it's true rulers, and makes a mockery out of them in religion, entertainment, scholarship, or what have you.. Yet Job patiently well said:
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:10 am| Heman wrote: |
| guess Tyndale missed this one?
Mat 24:36. Add "nor the Son" after "heaven". L T WH N NA |
| Mark 13:32 |
| But of the day and the hour, knoweth no man: no not the angels which are in heaven: neither the son himself, save the father only. |
| Matthew 24:36 |
| But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no not the angels of heaven, but my father only. |
| Heman wrote: |
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So, Tyndale is "INSPIRED" ? Did Tyndale have the "ORIGINALS" ? |
| Heman wrote: |
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"He translated straight from the Hebrew and Greek originals" Sure he did from: Erasmus' Greek text was based upon three of the cursive manuscripts 10 to 15th Century. |
| Code: |
| Joh 19:20 This title<superscription> read many of the jews. For the place where Jesus was crucified, was nigh to the city. And it was written in hebrew, greek and latin. |
| Heman wrote: |
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New Testament, 1526. William Tyndale, based upon Erasmus 1522, with reference to the Latin Vulgate. |
| Heman wrote: |
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It is now widely accepted by textual scholars that the selection of manuscripts available to Erasmus was quite limited ...being confined to a few late medieval texts that most modern scholars consider to be of dubious quality. |
| Psalms 118:8 |
| It is better to trust in the LORD, than to put any confidence in man. |
| Psalms 14:1-7 |
| 1To the chanter, a Psalm of David The foolish bodies say in their hearts: Tush, there is no God. They are corrupt, and become abominable in their doings, there is not one that doth good. 2The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that would understand and seek after God. 3But they are all gone out of the way, they are all together become unprofitable: there is none that doth good, no not one. 4How can they have understanding, that work mischief, eating up my people, as it were bread, and call not upon the LORD? 5Therefore shall they be brought in great fear, for God standeth by the generation of the righteous. 6As for you, ye have made a mock at the counsel of the poor, because he putteth his trust in the LORD. 7Oh that the saving health were given unto Israel out of Sion. Oh that the LORD would deliver his people out of captivity. Then should Jacob rejoice, and Israel should be right glad. |
| Heman wrote: |
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Textus Receptus used as the basis for the translation of the New Testament by William Tyndale. |
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:22 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||
Only because a gospel account did not include a detail in another account, that doesn't mean that it's any less truer. Yes, as Tyndale faithfully translated:
Besides, my father only is plain enough that it is the father of Jesu Christ that only knoweth.
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According to his prologues, it is clear WT never admited such a thing as the so called "Originals". Howbeit he did acknowledge God's sovereign providence in the transmission of the Scriptures from which he faithfully translated. |
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| Yes, today we can say the William Tyndale like every other martyr before and after Christ were indeed inspired. What other inspiration is there other than that a man bestow his life for his friends!? |
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I don't know who you are quoting.. But again it is not correct to call anything the "originals", because God can express his truth however he uniquely chooses from generation to generation.. thus he never needed any so called "originals". Rather it is lawful to say that William Tyndale translated from the original tongues of the Scriptures. |
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Tyndale rather used the Latin from Erasmus faithful OLD LATIN compilation way before Jerome. Yea even since Christ, and the same old Latin tongue that even the faithful Centurion spoke in. |
| Heman wrote: |
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It is now widely accepted by textual scholars that the selection of manuscripts available to Erasmus was quite limited ...being confined to a few late medieval texts that most modern scholars consider to be of dubious quality. |
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| Is your trust in Scholars? |
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Is it fair to call Erasmus work the "Textus Receptus" when that sort of name developed thereafter? .. (and since such compilations aftewards were without the Old Latin of which was side by side with Erasmus Greek compilation as a witness?!) |
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:53 am| Heman wrote: |
| The phrase originals or "uncial MSS", refers to all of the important old manuscripts of the Greek text made prior to the tenth century, which are written in large capital letters. |
| Psalms 33:10-11 |
| 10The LORD bringeth the counsel of the Heathen to naught, and turneth the devices of the people. 11But the counsel of the LORD endureth, and the thoughts of his heart from generation to generation. |
| Psalms 100:5 |
| For the LORD is gracious, his mercy is everlasting, and his truth endureth from generation to generation. |
| Psalms 119:89-90 |
| 89Lamed. O LORD, thy word endureth forever in heaven. 90Thy truth also remaineth from one generation to another: thou hast laid the foundation of the earth, and it abideth. |
| Heman wrote: | ||
You mean he had the power of the Holy Spirit to resurrect from the dead? |
| Romans 8:10-11 |
| 10If Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin: But the spirit is life for righteousness' sake. 11Wherefore if the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from death, dwell in you: even he that raised up Christ from death, shall quicken your mortal bodies, be cause that his spirit dwelleth in you. |
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| Eph 1:13 In whom also ye (after that ye heard the word of truth, I mean the gospel of your health,{salvation} wherein ye believed) were sealed with the holy spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 which is the earnest of our inheritance, to redeem the possession purchased{to our redemption} unto the laud<praise> of his glory. |
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| 1Co 15:20 [But] Now is Christ risen from death,{the dead} and is become the first fruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For by a man came death, and by a man came resurrection of death.{the dead.} 1Co 15:22 For as by Adam all die: even so by Christ, shall all be made alive, 1Co 15:23 and every man in his own order: The first is Christ, then they that are<belong unto> Christ's at his coming.<when he commeth> 1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he hath delivered up the kingdom to God the father, when he hath put down all rule, authority,<and all superiority> and power. 1Co 15:25 For he must rule<reign> till he have put all his enemies under his feet. 1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest, that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. |
| Heman wrote: | ||
It was the first English Bible that was translated directly from the original language. All the English manuscript Bibles were translations from the Vulgate; but Tyndale's New Testament was taken from the Greek, which he knew from the editions by Erasmus, published in 1516, 1519, and 1522. As subsidiary aids he employed the Latin version attached by Erasmus to his Greek text, Luther's German translation of 1522, and the Vulgate (www.bible-researcher.com) Erasmus, 1516. Desiderius Erasmus, Dutch Catholic scholar and humanist noted for Textus Receptus used as the basis for the translation of the New Testament by William Tyndale. - Erasmus, 1516. Desiderius Erasmus, Dutch Catholic scholar and humanist noted for Textus Receptus used as the basis for the translation of the New Testament by William Tyndale. Robert Estienne (Stephens 1550) in his influential third edition (1550), which in turn provided the basis for all editions later published by Beza (1565-98), subsequently followed by the translators of the King James version. The editions of Elzevir (1624, 1633) also derived from Erasmus 1527, as mediated by Estienne and Beza. Beza was chiefly indebted, but rather to the previous edition of the eminent Robert Estienne (1550), itself based in great measure upon one of the later editions of Erasmus. Elzevir, 1624. [Isaac Elzevir], Dutch printers and publishers, Novum Testamentum Gr?ce practically a reprint of the text of Beza 1565. The Elzevirs' 1633 edition became known as the "Textus Receptus" |
| 2 Corinthians 4:3-7 |
| 3If our Gospell be yet hid, it is hid among them that are lost, 4in whom the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest should shine unto them the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, which is the image of God, 5for we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and preach ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6For it is God that commanded the light to shine out of darkness, which hath shined in our hearts, for to give the light of knowledge of the glorious God, in the face of Jesus Christ. 7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellent power of it might appear to be of God, and not of us. |
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| Eph 5:25 Husbands love your wives, even as Christ loved the congregation, and gave himself for it,
Eph 5:26 to sanctify it, and cleansed it in the fountain of water thorow<by> the word, Eph 5:27 to make it unto himself, a glorious congregation without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing: but that it should be holy and without blame. Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives, as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife, loveth himself. Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet, hated his own flesh: But nourisheth, and cherisheth it: even as the Lord doth the congregation: Eph 5:30 for we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall continue with his wife, and two shall be made one flesh. Eph 5:32 This is a great secret, but I speak between Christ and the congregation. Eph 5:33 Nevertheless do ye so that every one of you love his wife truly even as himself: And let the wife see that she fear her husband. |
| 1 Peter 3:1-4 |
| 1Likewise let the women be in subjection to their husbands, that even they which believe not the word, may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives: 2while they behold your pure conversation coupled with fear. 3Whose apparel shall not be outward with broided hair, and hanging on of gold, other in putting on of gorgeous apparel: 4but let the hid man of the heart be uncorrupt, with a meek and a quiet spirit, which spirit is before God a thing much set by. |
| Heman wrote: | ||
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| Heman wrote: | ||||||
My trust is in the guidance of the God of me to decipher the MSS in which he directs me. Ps 40:3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD. 4 Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies. |
| Heman wrote: |
| "quite limited ...being confined to a few late medieval texts that most modern scholars consider to be of dubious quality |
| Heman wrote: | ||||
Fair or not that is the fact of the matter: Erasmus, 1516. Desiderius Erasmus, Dutch Catholic scholar and humanist noted for Textus Receptus used as the basis for the translation of the New Testament by William Tyndale. (www.Bible-researcher.com) |
| Heman wrote: |
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We are of God; that is why those who know God listen to us. If they do not know God, they do not listen to us. That is how we know the Spirit of truth or the spirit of deception (1 John 4:6) |
| 1 John 4:5-6 |
| 5They are of the world, therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6We are of God. He that knoweth God heareth us: He that is not of God, heareth us not. Hereby know we the spirit of verity, and the spirit of error. |
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| Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns? Or figs of briars?<thistles?> |
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| 2Ti 2:19 But the sure ground of God remaineth,<stondeth fast> and hath this seal: the Lord knoweth them that are his, and let every man that calleth on the name of Christ, depart from iniquity. |
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:54 pm| JAdmin wrote: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
That sounds like an oxymoron because it's a big assumption to imply something is "more truer" in importance only due to it's age and appearance when in the Scriptures there's no such supposition. Rather the manner of the truth that endureth from generation to generation is the actual simple test:
Yes, like it is promised in Christ:
Take heed how you use the term "Catholic" because Erasmus eloquently fought against all the heresies of the so called seen "church". For the true word catholic means the universal hidden believer and not anything seen by the outer appearance of the world.
Ironically Peter inspired by the wholy ghost well declared such great spiritual truth likewise:
Mat 7:13 Enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction: and many there be, which go in thereat.
If your trust is in God the sovereign LORD, why then do you slander HIS providence from one generation to another by assuming that it's
Your opinion and mss. preference is not a basis to make anything "more truer" than for ensample the Greek Byzantine Text (4th Century) that has withstood the test of time while the "uncial MSS" you refer to were only found much later and even disagree with one another and in turn don't agree with the received text five thousand fold. ----------------------
The fact of the matter is that terminology like "textus receptus", "humanist", and "catholic" have no original bearing with today's widely broad definition thereof that can sow all kinds of false suppositions.
The verse before it says why that is:
Us is refering to those that acknowledge Iesu Christ as coming in the flesh. Repent, for God knows how your original slander can more refer to those "uncial MSS" that have no faithful backing whatsoever by previous generations.
If you amend to rather take into account also the Byzantine (4th Century) and Erasmus compilation of Manuscripts faithfully passed from generation to generation, I perceive it'll bring great fruits.. (as you may have a great gift from above to translate the original tongues.)
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:56 pm| Heman wrote: |
| There are instances in which Alexandrian and Byzantine texts disagree in a significant way. One example is 1 Timothy 3:16. The Byzantine texts read "God was manifest in the flesh", whereas Alexandrian texts, with support from the Old Latin, Vulgate, Peshitta, Western text-type and many early church fathers read "He was manifest in the flesh". |
| 1 Timothy 3:16 |
| And without nay great is that mystery of godliness. God was shewed in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, was seen of angels, was preached unto the gentiles, was believed on in earth and received up in glory. |
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| 2Pe 1:20 So that ye first know this, that no prophecy in the scripture hath<is done of> any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the scripture<prophecy> came never by the will of man: but wholy men of God spake as they were moved by the wholy ghost. |
| John 3:34 |
| For he whom God hath sent, speaketh the words of God. For God giveth not the spirit by measure. |
| Isaiah 7:14 |
| And therefore the Lord shall give you a token of himself: Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel. |
| Matthew 1:23 |
| Behold a maid shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shalt call his name Emmanuel, which is as much to say, by interpretation, as God with us. |
| Isaiah 8:7-10 |
| 7Behold the Lord shall bring mighty and great floods of water upon them: namely, the king of the Assirians with all his power. Which shall pour out his furriousness upon every man, and run over all their banks. 8And shall break in upon Juda, increasing in power, till he get him by the throat. He shall fill also the wideness of thy land with his broad wings, O Emmanuel. 9Go together ye people, and gather you, hearken to all ye of far countries. Muster you, and gather you: muster you and gather you, 10take your counsel together, yet must your counsel come to nought: go in hand withal, yet shall it not prosper. Except Emmanuel: (that is God) be with us. |
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| Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the father, and the father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself: but the father dwelling in me is he that doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe that I am in the father, and the father in me. At the least believe me for the very works' sake. Joh 14:12 Verily, verily I say unto you whosoever believeth on me, the works that I do, the same shall he do, and greater works than these shall he do, because I go unto my father. |
| 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2 |
| 1We beseech you brethren by the coming of our Lord Jesu Christ, and in that we shall assemble unto him, 2that ye be not suddenly moved from your mind, and be not troubled, neither by spirit, neither by words, nor yet by letter, which should seem to come from us, as though the day of Christ were at hand. |
| Job 19:21-29 |
| 21Have pity upon me, have pity upon me (O ye my friends) for the hand of the Lord hath touched me. 22Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied of my flesh? 23O that my words were written, O that they were put in a book: 24would God they were graven with an iron pen in lead or in stone. 25For I am sure, that my redeemer liveth, and that I shall rise out of the earth in the latter day: 26that I shall be clothed again with this skin, and see God in my flesh. 27Yea I my self shall behold him, not with other but with these same eyes. My reins are consumed within me, 28when ye say: Why do not we persecute him? We have found an occasion against him. 29But beware of the sword, for the sword will be avenged of wickedness, and be sure, that there is a judgement. |
| Psalms 69:9 |
| For the zeal of thine house hath even eaten me, and the rebukes of them that rebuked thee, is fallen upon me. |
| John 2:15-17 |
| 15And he made a scourge of small cords, and drave them all out of the temple, both sheep and oxen, and poured down the changers' money, and overthrew their tables. 16And said unto them that sold doves: Have these things hence, and make not my father's house, an house of merchandise. 17 His disciples remembered, how that it was written: The zeal of thine house, hath even eaten me. |
| Psalms 35:1-28 |
| 1Of David. Strive thou with them, O LORD, that strive with me, fight thou against them that fight against me. 2Lay hand upon the shield and spear, and stand up to help me. 3Draw out thy sword, and stop the way against them that persecute me, say unto my soul: I am thy help. 4Let them be confounded and put to shame, that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion, that imagine mischief for me. 5Let them be as the dust before the wind, and the angel of the LORD scattering them. 6Let their way be dark and slippery, and the angel of the LORD to persecute them. 7For they have privily laid their net to destroy me without cause, yea, and made a pit for my soul, which I never deserved. 8Let a sudden destruction come upon him unawares, and the net that he hath laid privily, catch himself, that he may fall into his own mischief. 9But let my soul be joyful in the LORD, and rejoice in his help. 10All my bones shall say: LORD, who is like unto thee? which deliverest the poor from those that are too strong for him, yea, the poor and the needy from his robbers. 11False witnesses are risen up, and lay to my charge things that I know not. 12They reward me evil for good, to the great discomforth of my soul. 13Nevertheless, when they were sick, I put on a sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting, and my prayer returned into mine own bosom. 14I behaved myself as though it had been my friend or my brother, I went heavily, as one that mourneth for his mother. 15But in mine adversity they rejoice, and gather them together: Yea, the very lame come together against me unawares, making mowes at me, and cease not. 16With the greedy and scornful hypocrites, they gnashed upon me with their teeth. 17Lord, when wilt thou look upon this? O restore my soul from the wicked rumour of them, my darling from the lions. 18So will I give thee thanks in the great congregation, and praise thee among much people. 19O let them not triumph over me, that are mine enemies for naught: O let them not wink with their eyes, that hate me without a cause. 20And why? their communing is not for peace, but they imagine false words against the outcasts of the land. 21They gape upon me with their mouths, saying: there there: we see it with our eyes. 22This thou seest, O LORD: hold not thy tongue then, go not far from me, O Lord. 23Awake Lord, and stand up: avenge thou my cause, my God, and my Lord. 24Judge me, O LORD my God, according to thy righteousness, that they triumph not over me. 25O let them not say in their hearts: there there, so would we have it: O let them not say: we have overcome him. 26Let them be put to confusion and shame, that rejoice at my trouble: let them be clothed with rebuke and dishonour, that boast themselves against me. 27Let them also be glad and rejoice, that favour my righteous dealing: yea let them say alway: blessed be the LORD, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant. 28And as for my tongue, it shall be talking of thy righteousness and of thy praise, all the day long. |
| Moderator wrote: |
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On that serious note this post is done. |
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