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love and charity
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heman
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Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: clarity vs. obscurity Reply with quote

JAdmin wrote:
The Scriptures as a whole justly give the clear idea of whatever passage if according to the law and the testimony.

heman wrote:
That sounds GOOD to me, I just wanted at least an obscure idea of the passage.
Quote:
Ps 40:3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.
Ps 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.(EVEN TRANSLATORS)


JAdmin wrote:
Isaiah 28:9-29
9What is he among them, that can teach, instruct or inform the children, which are weeded from suck or taken from the breasts: of any other fashion than:  10Command that may be commanded, bid that may be bidden, forbid that may be forbidden, keep back that may be kept back, here a little, there a little.  11And therefore the LORD also shall speak with lisping lips and with a strange language unto this people, to whom he spake afore of this manner:  12This shall bring rest, if one refresh the weary, yea this shall bring rest. But they had no will to hear.  13And therefore the LORD shall answer their stubborness. (Command that may be commanded, bid that may be bidden, forbid that may be forbidden, keep back that may be kept back, here a little, there a little.) That they may go forth, fall backward, be bruised, snared, and taken.  14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye mockers that rule the Lord's people, which is at Jerusalem.  15For ye comfort yourselves thus: Tush, death and we are at point, and as for hell, we have made a condition with it, that though there break out any sore plague, it shall not come upon us. For with deceit will we escape, and with nimbleness will we defend ourselves.  16Therefore thus sayeth the Lord GOD: Behold, I will lay a stone in Sion, a great stone, a costly corner stone, for a sure foundation: that who so putteth his trust in him, shall not be confounded.  17Righteousness will I set up again in the balance, and judgement in the weights. The tempest of hail shall take away your refuge, that ye have to deceive withal: and the overflowing waters shall break down your strongholds of dissimulation.  18Thus the appointment that ye have made with death, shall be done away: and the condition that ye made with hell, shall not stand. When the great destruction goeth thorow, it shall all to tread you. It shall take you quite away before it.  19For it shall go forth early in the morning, and continue only that day and that night. And the very fear only shall teach you, when ye hear it.  20For the bed shall be so narrow that a man can not lie upon it: And the covering too small, that a man may not wind himself therein.  21For the LORD shall step forth as he did upon the mount Perazim, and shall take on as he did upon the dale of Gabaon: that he may bring forth his device, his strange device: and fulfill his work, his wonderful work.  22And therefore make no mocks at it, that your captivity increase not: for I have heard the Lord GOD of Hosts say, that there shall come a sudden destruction and plague upon the whole earth.  23Take heed, and hear my voice, ponder and mark my words well.  24Goeth not the husbandman ever in due season earnestly to his land? He moweth and ploweth his ground to sow.  25And when he hath made it plain, he soweth it with fetches or comin. He soweth the wheat and Barley in their place, Milium and Rye also in their place.  26And that he may do it right, his God teacheth him and sheweth him.  27For he treadeth not the fitches out with a waine, neither bringeth he the cart here and there over the comin, but he thresheth the fitches out with a flayle, and the comin with a rod.  28As for the wheat, he grindeth it to make bread thereof; In as much as he can not bring it to pass with treading out. For neither the bruising that the cart wheels make, nor his beasts can grind it.  29This and such like things come of the LORD of Hosts which is marvelous in counsel, and great in righteousness.  


heman wrote:
Quote:
Pr 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.


JAdmin wrote:
Code:
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man seem <|think himself|> wise among you, let him be <|become|> a fool in this world, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: he compasseth the wise in their craftiness.
1 Corinthians 8:2-3
2If any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.  3But if any man love God, the same is known of him.  


heman wrote:

Quote:
Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
12 For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.


JAdmin wrote:
Isaiah 51:1-15
1Hearken to me, ye that hold of righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: Take heed unto the stone, whereout ye are hewn, and to the grave whereout ye are digged.   2Consider Abraham your father, and Sara that bare you: how that I called him alone, and prospered him well, and increased him:   3how the LORD comforted Sion, and repaired all her decay: making her desert as a Paradise, and her wilderness as the garden of the LORD. Mirth and joy was there, thanksgiving, and the voice of praise.   4Have respect unto me then, O my people, and lay thine ear to me: for a law, and an ordinance shall go forth from me, to lighten the Gentiles.   5It is hard by, that my health and my righteousness shall go forth, and the people shall be ordered with mine arm. The Islands (that is the Gentiles) shall hope in me, and put their trust in mine arm.   6Lift up your eyes toward heaven, and look upon the earth beneath. For the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall tear like a cloth, and they that dwell therein, shall perish in like manner. But my health endureth for ever, and my righteousness shall not cease.   7Therefore hearken unto me, ye that have pleasure in righteousness, thou people that bearest my law in thine heart. Fear not the curse of men, be not afraid of their blasphemies and revilings:   8For worms and moths shall eat them up like cloth and wool. But my righteousness shall endure for ever, and my saving health from generation to generation.   9Wake up, wake up, and be strong: O thou arm of the LORD: wake up, like as in times past, ever and since the world began.  10Art not thou he, that hast wounded that proud lucifer, and hewn the dragon in pieces? Art not thou even he, which hast dried up the deep of the sea, which hast made plain the sea ground, that the delivered might go thorow?  11That the redeemed of the LORD, which turned again, might come with joy unto Sion, there to endure for ever? That mirth and gladness might be with them: that sorrow and woe might flee from them?  12Yea I, I am even he, that in all things giveth you consolation. What art thou then, that fearest a mortal man, the child of man, which goeth away as doeth the flour?  13And forgetest the LORD that made thee, that spread out the heavens, and laid the foundation of the earth. But thou art ever afraid for the sight of thine oppressor, which is ready to do harm: Where is the wrath of the oppressor?  14It cometh on fast, it maketh haste to appear: It shall not perish, that it should not be able to destroy, neither shall it fail for fault of nourishing.  15I am the LORD thy God, that make the sea to be still, and to rage: whose name is the LORD of Hosts.  

heman wrote:
Quote:

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to have pleased: for the one coming near to God to believe because he is, and he becomes a rewarder to those seeking him.

1 Corinthians 2:9-13
9but as it is written: The eye hath not seen, and the ear hath not heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10But to us God hath revealed them through the spirit. For the spirit searcheth all things, yea the depths of God. 11For what man knoweth the things of a man: if not the spirit of a man that is in him? So also even the things of God no one knows, if not the spirit of God. 12But we have not received the spirit of the world: but that spirit from God, but that we may know the things that are graciously given by God to us, 13which things also we speak, not by the teachings in words of human wisdom, but by teachings of the spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual ones.

JAdmin wrote:
Spirit from God sounds like something apart when in reality the wholy spirit is of God himself, as it is clearly written:
Hebrews 11:6
but without faith it is unpossible to please him. For he that cometh to God, must believe that God is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek him.
Code:
1Co 2:12 And we have not received the spirit of the world: but the spirit which cometh of God, for to know the things that are given to us of God,
1Co 2:13 which things also we speak, not in the cunning words of man's wisdom, but with the cunning words of the holy ghost, making spiritual comparisons of spiritual things. <|and judge spiritual matters spiritually|>
1Co 2:14 For the natural man perceiveth not the things of the spirit of God: For they are but foolishness unto him. Neither can he perceive them because he is spiritually examined: <|can not perceive it: for it must be spiritually discerned|>
1Co 2:15 but he that is spiritual discusseth all things: yet he himself is judged of no man.

1 Cor 2:12-16
ηυεισ δε ουτο πνευμα τοθ κοσμου ελαβομεν αλλα το πνευματο εκ του Θυ ινα ειδωμεν τα υπο του Θυ καριοθεντα ηυιν α και λαλουμεν ουκ εν διδακτοισ ανθρωπινησ σοφιασ λογοισ αλλ εν διδακτοισ πνευματοσ πνευματικωσ πνευματικα ουγκρεινοντεσ Ψυχικοσ δε ανθρωποσ ου δεχεται τα του πνευματοσ του Θυ μωρια γαρ αυτω εστιν και ου δαναται γνωναι οτι πνευματικωσ ανακρειωται ο δε πνευματικοσ ανακρεινε μεν παντα αυτοσ δε υπ ουδενοσ ανακρειωται τισ γαρ εγνω νουν χυ οσ συμβιβασει αυτον ημεισ δε νουν χυ εχομεν

Translated reads:
12But we have not received the spirit of the world: but that spirit (1537 εκ; 3588 του; 2316 Θυ God,) from the God, but that we may know the things that are graciously given (5259 υπο) by God to us, 13which things also we speak, not by the teachings in words of human wisdom, but by teachings of the spirit, spiritual things being interpreted in spiritual ways. 14 But the animal man does not receive the spiritual things of God for to him it is foolishness and he is not able to know because it is spiritually examined. 15 But the spiritual himself examines indeed all things but is examined by no one. 16 For who has known the mind of the Lord? Who instructs him? but we have the mind of the Anointed .
Or word for word is translated this way:
2:12 ? we but not the spirit of the world received, but the spirit that (1537 εκ= from) of the God,

JAdmin wrote:
1 Corinthians 4:2-5
2Furthermore it is required of the disposers that they be found faithful.  3With me is it but a very small thing, that I should be judged of you, either of man's day. No I judge not mine own self.  4I know nought by myself: yet am I not thereby justified. It is the Lord that judgeth me.  5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, which will lighten things that are hid in darkness: and open the counsels of the hearts. And then shall every man have praise of God.  

Code:
Joh 4:24 God is a spirit, and they that worship him, must honour <worship> him, in spirit and verity. <trouth, or real fidelity of truth>
Romans 8:10-11
10If Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin: But the spirit is life for righteousness' sake.  11Wherefore if the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from death, dwell in you: even he that raised up Christ from death, shall quicken your mortal bodies, be cause that his spirit dwelleth in you.  

10If Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin: But the spirit is life for righteousness' sake. 11Wherefore if the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from death, dwell in you: even he that raised up Christ from death, shall quicken your mortal bodies, be cause that his spirit dwelleth in you
OR
10But If an Anointed be in you, the body indeed is dead on account of sin: but the spirit is life through righteousness. 11But if the spirit of him having raised up the Jesus out of dead ones, dwell in you: he having raised up the Anointed out of dead ones, also will make alive your mortal bodies, through the indwelling of his spirit in you.

Quote:
JAdmin wrote:
1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11For other foundation can no man lay, than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.  12If any man build on this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, timber, hay, or stubble:  13every man's work shall appear. For the day shall declare it, and it shall be shewed in fire, and the fire shall try every man's work what it is.  14If any man's work that he hath built upon, bide, he shall receive a reward.  15If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he shall be safe himself: nevertheless yet as it were thorow fire.  
heman wrote:
Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.


JAdmin wrote:
Code:
Ga 1:9 As I said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other thing unto you, than that ye have received, hold him accursed. <|the same be accursed|>


Hebrews 12:28-29
28Wherefore if we receive a kingdom which is not moved, we have grace, whereby we may serve God and please him with reverence and godly fear.  29For our God is a consuming fire.  


heman wrote:
heman wrote:
Ho 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.



JAdmin wrote:
Ho 13:4 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: that thou shouldest know no God but me only, and that thou shouldest have no Saviour but only me.



Quote:

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


JAdmin wrote:
Revelation 2:1-11
1Unto the angel of the congregation of Ephesus write: These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, and walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks.  2I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not forbear them which are evil: and examinedst them which say they are apostles, and are not: and hast found them liars.  3And hast suffered, and hast patience: and for my name's sake hast laboured and hast not fainted.  4Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, for thou hast left thy first love.  5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works. Or else I will come unto thee shortly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.  6But this thou hast because thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which deeds I also hate.  7Let him that hath ears hear, what the spirit saith unto the congregations. To him that overcometh, will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.  8And unto the angel of the congregation of Smyrna write: These things saith he that is first, and the last, which was dead and is alive.  9I know thy works and tribulation and poverty, but thou art rich: And I know the blasphemy of them which call themselves jews and are not: but are the congregation of sathan.  10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil shall cast of you into prison, to tempt you, and ye shall have tribulation ten days. Be faithful unto the death, and I will give thee a crown of life.  11Let him that hath ears hear, what the spirit saith to the congregations: He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.  


heman wrote:
Quote:
Mt 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.


JAdmin wrote:
Quote:
Matthew 20:1-28
1For the kingdom of heaven is like unto an householder which went out early in the morning to hire laborers into his vineyard.  2And he agreed with the laborers for a penny a day, and sent them in to his vineyard.  3And he went out about the third hour, and saw other standing idle in the market place,  4and said unto them: go ye also into my vineyard, and whatsoever is right, I will give you: and they went their way.  5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.  6And he went out about the eleventh hour and found other standing idle, and said unto them: Why stand ye here all the day idle?  7They said unto him: Because no man hath hired us. He said to them: go ye also into my vineyard, and whatsoever shall be right, that shall ye receive.  8When even was come, the lord of the vineyard, said unto his steward: call the laborers, and give them their hire, beginning at the last, till thou come to the first.  9And they which were hired about the eleventh hour, came and received every man a penny.  10Then came the first, supposing that they should receive more, and they like wise received every man a penny.  11And when they had received it, they grudged against the good man of the house, saying:  12These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us which have borne the burden and heat of the day.  13He answered to one of them, saying: Friend I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny?  14Take that which is thy duty, and go thy way. I will give unto this last, as much as to thee.  15Is it not lawful for me to do as me listeth, with mine own? Is thine eye evil because I am good?  16So the last shall be first, and the first shall be last. For many are called, and few be chosen.  17And Jesus ascended to Jerusalem, and took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said to them:  18Lo we go up to Jerusalem, and the son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,  19and shall deliver him to the gentiles, to be mocked, to be scourged, and to be crucified: and the third day he shall rise again.  20Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.  21 He said unto her: What wilt thou have? She said unto him: Grant that these my two sons may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand in thy kingdom.  22Jesus answered, and said: Ye wot not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of? And to be baptised with the baptism, that I shall be baptised with? They answered to him: That we are.  23 He said unto them: Ye shall drink of my cup, and shall be baptised with the baptism that I shall be baptised with all. But to sit on my right hand, and on my left hand, is not mine to give you: but to them for whom it is prepared of my father.  24And when the ten heard this, they disdained at the two brethren.  25But Jesus called them unto him, and said: Ye know, that the lords of the gentiles have domination over them. And they that are great, exercise power over them.  26It shall not be so among you: But whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister,  27and whosoever will be chief, let him be your servant.  28Even as the son of man came, not to be ministered unto, but to minister: and to give his life for the redemption of many.  


Luke 9:46-56
46Then there arose a disputation among them, who should be the greatest.  47When Jesus perceived the thoughts of their hearts, he took a child, and set him hard by him,  48and said unto them: Whosoever receiveth this child in my name, receiveth me. And whosoever receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me. For he that amongst you, is the least, the same shall be great.  49 John answered and said: Master we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us.  50And Jesus said unto him: forbid ye him not. For he that is not against you, is with you.  51And it followed when the time was come that he should be received up and that he determined himself to go to Jerusalem:  52and sent messengers before him. And they went, and entered into a city of the Samaritans to make ready for him.  53And they would not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.  54When his disciples, James, and John, saw that, they said: Lord, wilt thou that we command, that fire come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Helias did?  55Jesus turned about, and rebuked them saying: ye wot not what manner spirit ye are of.  56The son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another town.  


Luke 22:24-27
24And there was a strife among them, which of them should seem greatest.  25And he said unto them: The kings of the gentiles reign over them; And they that bear rule over them, are called gracious lords.  26But ye shall not be so. But he that is greatest among you, shall be as the youngest: And he that is chief, shall be as the minister.   27For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat: or he that serveth? Is not he that sitteth at meat? And I am among you, as he that ministereth.  


Matthew 23:10-11
10Be not called masters, for one is your master, and he is Christ.  11He that is greatest among you, shall be your servant.  

_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD
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JAdmin
Moderator


Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:19 am    Post subject: love and charity Reply with quote

Heman wrote:
Or word for word is translated this way:
2:12 ? we but not the spirit of the world received, but the spirit that (1537 εκ= from) of the God,


The Greek word εκ itself is not limited to either "from" or "of" according to it's definition:
Code:
Strong:  G1537
Word: εκ
Pronounc: ek
Transliter: ek  or  ex
ex a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or  motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or  figurative; direct or remote):--after, among, X are, at,  betwixt(-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above),  for(- th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X  heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, ...ly, (because, by reason) of,  off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth,  through,  X unto, X vehemently, with(-out). Often used in composition,  with the same general import; often of completion.


Nonetheless, Greek and English have different expressions, and it is a great ensample of what WT adverted in his 1534 prologue:
Quote:
If ought seem changed, or not altogether agreeing with the Greek, let the finder of the fault consider the Hebrew phrase or manner of speech left in the Greek words. Whose preterperfect tense and present tense is oft both one, and the future tense is the optative mode also, and the future tense is oft the imperative mode in the active voice, and in the passive ever. Likewise person for person, number for number, and an interrogation for a conditional, and such like is with the Hebrews a common usage.


The New Testament translated into Hebrew by Delitzsch says:

Quote:
‏2:12 ואנחנו לא לקחנו את רוח העולם כי האלהים למען נדע את אשר נתן לנו מאת האלהים בחסדו


אם הרוח מאת האלהים expresses the conception within by God's spirit


And looks like a perfect closing to the topic of love and charity:

1 John 4:7-8
7Dearly beloved, let us love one another: for love cometh of God. And every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.  8 He that loveth not, hath not known God: for God is love.  

_________________
Zechariah 4:6
He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts.
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