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JAdmin
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 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:33 am Post subject: The name Jesu Christ of Nazareth |
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Somebody once asked me a very important question on another forum, that I thought to repost here as a new topic, that believe will offer much edification in Messiah.
| Quote: |
Why do you call him Jesu?
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Jesu is a way of expressing the name. Although I believe the significance behind the name is the most important, such as the custom of the Hebrews was.
Mt. 1:21 She shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Iesus. For he shall save his people from their sins.
The first New Testament translations in divers languages used the same name Iesu. Yea such as German, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and yea even English that in regards to the transliteration of the name are nearer to the Latin and Hebrew than to the Greek.
| Code: | German Lutherbibel 1545
Matth?us 1:1 Dies ist das Buch von der Geburt JEsu Christi, der da ist ein Sohn Davids, des Sohnes Abrahams.
Spanish Reina (1569) Valera (1602)
Mateo 1:1 Libro de la generaci?n de Iesu Cristo, hijo de David, hijo de Abraham.
Italian Diodati 1607
Matteo 1:1 LIBRO della generazione di Iesu Cristo, figliuolo di Davide, figliuolo di Abrahamo.
Portuguese Almeida 1676-1819
Matheus 1:1 Livro da gera??o de Jesu Cristo, filho de Davi, filho de Abra?o. |
In English you may see a comparison here: Matthew 1:1 original spelling (or in modern go-spelling)
| Code: | Wycliff (from Latin) 1380-1388
1 The book of the generacioun of Jhesu Crist, the sone of Dauid, the sone of Abraham.
Tyndale (from Greek with Hebraic meaning in mind) 1526-1534
1 This is the boke of the generacion of Iesus Christ the sonne of Dauid the sonne also of Abraham.
Coverdale 1535
1 This is the boke of the generacion of Iesus Christ ye sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham.
Geneva 1560-1599
1 The booke of the generation of Jesus Christ the sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham.
Bishops 1568
1 This is the booke of the generation of Iesus Christ, the sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham.
KJV 1611
1 The booke of the generation of Iesus Christ, the sonne of Dauid, the sonne of Abraham. |
To be more accurate, whoever restored Wycliffe and Geneva (quoted above) opted to use the modern letter "J" but the original has "I" instead, even the KJV 1611 edition did not use "J".
Notwithstanding, even if many languages (such derived from Latin) did not use the letter "J" at their peak of beauty and expression, that wouldn't take away from the name that today would sound something like Jesu (Yeasu). And I believe Jesu is the name the Romans used, such as the faithful Centurion must of known the Lord by, since obviously he spoke Latin. The name of the Lord was written in the Latin, Greek, and Hebrew superscription on the cross over Christ, that I believe shewed the most significant part of the name that is of Nazareth pointing to a very deep Hebraic significance.
| Quote: | John 19:19 Pilate wrote his title, and put it on the cross: The writing was, Iesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews.
John 19:20 This title <|superscription|> read many of the jews. For the place where Jesus was crucified, was nigh to the city. And it was written in hebrew, greek and latin. |
There are many expressions for the name, and shorten forms thereof, depending on the language. For example we at times shorten the name John to Joe, and from one language to another it will vary, such as John in Portuguese is Jo?o.
There is a name now given above every other name according to Ac. 4:8-11 that narrows him to Christ our Saviour, who is of Nazareth, whom many call Jesus, Iesous as the Greeks call, Iesu back in old Latin, or Yesua in Hebrew even used in Israel today. (in Hebrew the full meaning of the name is transliterated Yahshuah, that means God's salvation. And I happen to know that the reason Greek, Latin and other languages did not use the ending of -shua is because all names ending in -a sound feminine like Maria for a woman and Mario for a man, thus the reason to use Iesu, Iesous, Jesus, Jesu.)
Yea, and back then, they also used the place a person was brought up, to be more descritive in distinguishing a person better, thus Nazareth or Nazarene also has a very strong spiritual Hebrew significance, that was even prophetized about:
| Quote: | | Mt. 2:23 and Joseph and Mary went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, to fulfil, that which was spoken by the prophets: He shall be called of Nazareth. <a Nazarite.> |
The Hebraic meaning of Nazareth or the Nazarite is a great study: Jud. Chap. 13, 1Sa. 1:11
to corrolating people's attitude after Lam. 4 as seen in Jo. 1:46
alluding to it's details in Ps. 22 and Isa. 53,
and most importantly seeing the fulfilment of Prophecy stated at Mt. 2:23
| Quote: | Then Peter full of the holy ghost said unto them. Ye rulers of the people, and seniors <elders> of Israel, if we this day are examined of the good deed done to the sick man by what means he is made whole: be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Iesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, and whom God raised from death again, this man standeth <even by him doth this man stand> here present before you whole.
This is the stone cast aside <|refused|> of you builders which is set in the chief place of the corner. <|become the head corner stone|>
Neither is there health <salvation> in any other. Nor yet also is there any other name given to men wherein we must be saved.
Ac. 4:8 |
Last edited by JAdmin on Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:30 pm; edited 9 times in total |
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heman
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that is Greek to me!
Here is the actual translation:
χυ ιυ = Anointed Iesus
as spelled in the Koine Greek in the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus 4th Century A.D.
There being no letter "J" in Greek!
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
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| Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: greek, latin, and hebrew |
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Well, that is Latin to me!
Nonetheless, even if we had an original text, that still would not make it wholly truthful by itself. What makes something wholy (even in our comprehension) is the active verity of the spirit of God. Even the Apostles who walked with Christ in the flesh acknowledged this, and is why Peter eloquently said:
| 2 Peter 1:19-21 | | 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy, whereunto if ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, ye do well, until the day dawn and the day star arise in your hearts. 20So that ye first know this, that no prophecy in the scripture hath any private interpretation. 21For the scripture came never by the will of man: but wholy men of God spake as they were moved by the wholy ghost. |
Way before divers codexes and manuscripts, there be still brave martyrs that kept the word in the heart, yea that liveth it walking after the spirit.
| Psalms 33:11 | | But the counsel of the LORD endureth, and the thoughts of his heart from generation to generation. |
| Psalms 100:5 | | For the LORD is gracious, his mercy is everlasting, and his truth endureth from generation to generation. |
| Psalms 119:89-91 | | 89Lamed. O LORD, thy word endureth forever in heaven. 90Thy truth also remaineth from one generation to another: thou hast laid the foundation of the earth, and it abideth. 91They continue this day according to thine ordinance, for all things serve thee. |
According to this enduring truth from heaven, God onely is who has the final say on how he wills to diligently share his wholy verity from generation to generation.
And of course other than Greek and Hebrew, God has also preserved his witness even in Latin speaking devout believers. It is a nailed fact:
| Luke 23:38 | | His superscription was written over him, in greek, latin, and hebrew letters: This is the King of the Jews. |
Languages vary and I believe there is liberty in Christ to express it according to how his spirit reveals it to us in verity. For ensample, the letter "J" in a name does not limit it's significance (that even looks like a sheephook or even fishhook depending on how you perceive it.) Notwithstanding, I just say to all that receive eternal health, the more glory to God through Jesu Christ.
| Matthew 1:21 | | She shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus. For he shall save his people from their sins. |
Love it when we discuss all things!
| 1 Peter 1:22-25 | | 22And forasmuch as ye have purified your souls thorow the spirit, in obeying the truth for to love brotherly without feigning, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23for ye are born a new, not of mortal seed, but of immortal seed, by the word of God which liveth, and lasteth for ever, 24because that all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man is as the flower of grass, the grass is withered, and the flower is faded away, 25but the word of the Lord endureth ever. And this is the word which by the gospel was preached among you. |
Last edited by JAdmin on Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:47 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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heman
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | According to this enduring truth from heaven, God onely is who has the final say on how he wills to diligently share his wholy verity from generation to generation.
And of course other than Greek and Hebrew, God has also preserved his witness even in Latin speaking devout believers. It is a nailed fact: |
I couldn't agree with you more and that is why God left us with the four Greek wittnesses!
There are four kinds of Greek witnesses: papyri, uncials (or majuscules), minuscules (or cursives), and lectionaries. The first three are important enough to warrant some discussion here.
Papyri
These documents are written on the cheap writing materials of the ancient world that were roughly equivalent to modern paper. Literally thousands of papyrus fragments have been found of which approximately 100 contain portions of the New Testament.
Actually, taken together, these 100 fragments constitute over half of the New Testament and all but four are in the form of codices (i.e., four are scrolls rather than the book-form [codex]). All NT papyri were written with uncial or capital letters. They range in date from the early second century through the eighth century. About 50 of them are to be dated before the fourth century.
Though many of them are somewhat fragmentary, and at times the copying was looser than one would like (i.e., they were done before the canon was officially recognized), they are nevertheless extremely important for establishing the text of the New Testament?if for no other reason than the fact that they represent some of the most ancient witnesses we possess.
Six important papyri are illustrated in the chart below. The symbol for each papyrus is ? followed by a number (e.g., ?45). The most important papyri cited in the NET NT footnotes are as follows:
Papyri
Name
Date
NT Books
Covered
General Characteristics
?45
Chester Beatty papyrus
3rd century AD
Gospels, Acts 4-17
Mark (Caesarean); Matt, Luke, John (intermediate between Alexandrian and Western texttypes)
?46
Chester Beatty papyrus
ca. AD 200
10 Pauline Epistles (all but Pastorals) and Hebrews
Overall closer to Alexandrian than Western
?47
Chester Beatty papyrus
3rd century AD
Revelation 9:10-17:2
Alexandrian; often agrees with Sinaiticus (?)
?66
Bodmer Papyrus
ca. AD 200
John
Mixed text between Western and Alexandrian
?75
Bodmer papyrus
early 3rd century
Luke and John
Alexandrian, often agrees with B
Uncials
There are approximately 300 uncials known to exist today that contain portions of the New Testament and one uncial that contains the entire NT. Like the papyri, these manuscripts were written with uncial or capital letters, but unlike the papyri they were written on animal skins or vellum.
For the most part they are beautiful manuscripts, elegantly written and routinely done in scriptoria and often for special purposes. Generally speaking, they range in date from the fourth through the ninth centuries. Our oldest complete copy of the NT is an uncial manuscript, ? (see chart below). The symbol for each uncial is either a capital letter (in Latin or Greek letters [though one ms has a Hebrew letter, ?]) or a number beginning with 0 (e.g., 01, 0220, etc.). The most important uncials cited in the NET NT footnotes are as follows:
Uncial
Name
Date (approx.)
NT Books Covered
General
Characteristics
? (01)
Aleph or
Sinaiticus 4th century The entire NT
Alexandrian; best in epistles
A (02)
Alexandrinus
5th century
Most of the NT
Important in the Epistles and Revelation
B (03)
Vaticanus
4th century Most of NT except Hebrews 9:14ff, the Pastorals, Phlm, Rev
Alexandrian; best in Gospels
C (04)
Ephraemi
Rescriptus
5th century
Portions of every book except 2 Thess and 2 John
mixed
D (05)
Bezae/
Cantabrigiensis
5th century
Gospels and Acts
Western
D (06)
Claromontanus
6th century
Pauline Epistles and Hebrews
Western
F (010)
Augiensis
9th century
Pauline Epistles
Western
G (012)
Boernerianus
9th century
Pauline Epistles
Western
L (019)
Regius
8th century
Gospels
Often agrees with Vaticanus
W (032)
Washingtonianus
early 5th century
Gospels
mixed; earliest representation of Byzantine texttype. Alexandrian in John 5:12-21:25.
Q (038)
Koridethi
9th century
Gospels
The text of Mark is similar to that used by Origen and Eusebius in the third and fourth centuries at Caesarea
Y (044)
Athous Laurae
8th/ 9th century
Gospels/Acts/
Paul/General Epistles
Contains Alexandrian, Western, and Byzantine influences
Codex Vaticanus (B), since 1481, at least, the chief treasure of the Vatican Library, and universally esteemed to be the oldest and best manuscript of the Greek New Testament; 4th century. In the Gospels the divisions are of an earlier date than in Codex Sinaiticus.
Codex Sinaiticus found by Tischendorf at Catherine's Monastery on Mt. Sinai and now in the British Library of London; 4th century. This is the only uncial which contains the New Testament entire. It also has the Epistle of Barnabas and part of the Shepherd of Hermas and possibly originally the Didache.
Probably the earliest system of chapter divisions is preserved in Codex Vaticanus, coming down to us from Alexandria probably by way of Caesarea.
The Complutensian and Erasmus were the basis of all the early editions.
Followed by:
Stephanus 1550 NT; Beza?s 1565-98; Elzevir?s Textus Receptus 1624-33; Bentley 1662-1742;
Bengel 1734; Neither Hug nor Scholtz were comparable to Griesbach 1745-1812 ; Lachman; Tregelles; Tischendorf Edition 8
I find it interesting to note that the ones I have been quoting from are described as The most important uncials Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Vaticanus (B), and Alexandrinus ; not to mention Stephanus 1550 NT; Beza?s 1565-98; are in my collection.
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
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Posts: 279
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| Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:16 am Post subject: bible researcher |
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Thanks for the info.. But textual criticism may not be my cup of tea.
Divers Greek mss variant differences can be found at:
http://bible-researcher.com/title.html
Man is limited on how he preserves the facts.. notwithstanding, from generation to generation God would not be intellectually limited on how he expresses his verity.. even in the English Bible that opened the door of Scriptural translation liberty at such a high price of life.
It is interesting that though Tyndale and martyr friends translated the NT from Greek and Latin sources, he always had the Hebrew significance in mind as he mentions on the 1534 NT preface WT to the reader:
| Quote: | | Here you have (most dear reader) the new testament or covenant made with us of God in Christ's blood. Which I have looked over again (now at last) with all diligence, and have weeded out of it many faults, which lack of help at the beginning, and oversight, did sow therein. If ought seem changed, or not altogether agreeing with the Greek, let the finder of the fault consider the Hebrew phrase or manner of speech left in the Greek words. Whose preterperfect tense and present tense is oft both one, and the future tense is the optative mode also, and the future tense is oft the imperative mode in the active voice, and in the passive ever. Likewise person for person, number for number, and an interrogation for a conditional, and such like is with the Hebrews a common usage. |
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