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heman
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Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: "Spirit by the works"?

Gal 3

2) This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit on account of the works of the law, or by that which is heard of faith?

He did not come to destroy the law (Matthew 5:16-17).
16Let your light shine in the presence of men that they may see your good and may praise that in the heavens, your Father .

17Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to destroy but to fulfill.

Acts 26:20 shows that there are works involved in repentance, and much of James 2 shows the responsibility.

To each of the seven churches in Revelation 2-3, Christ says He knows their works?and they are judged accordingly. The question in this verse is not about whether the law is still in effect, whether following it is still required, or whether there is anything wrong with the set of laws that God codified.

Rather, the critical point is what part the law plays within our conversion and sanctification, and consequently, what part God plays in the process as well.

There is the definite statement in Acts 5:32 that the Spirit is only given to those who submit to God ?those following His laws. God will not give a measure of His life-giving Spirit to someone who is rebellious or disobedient to Him! The story of Simon Magus (Acts 8:9-24) illustrates this.
32And we are witnesses of him of these matters, and the Holy Spirit also, Which God gave to those submitting to Him.

The Holy Spirit is a gift (Acts 2:38; 10:45; Hebrews 2:4), something freely given and not earned.

Romans 9:11 shows that it is by God's election that determines who has his mind opened, not the choice (or the works) of the individual.
11And the children were yet unborn and had done nothing good or vile. Even so, according to God's purpose an election, (choice), might abide not from works, but from the one who calls.

John 6:44 shows clearly that God chooses who will enter into the covenant relationship, and without God drawing a person to Him, it is impossible for that person to even know God.

I Corinthians 1:26-29 also illustrates that God does the "calling," and He purposefully chooses the weak, the foolish, the base things of the world.
God is the only one that can bring our salvation to pass (Ephesians 2:10).
10For we are a work having been formed in Christ Jesus, for good works which God planned beforehand for us that we should walk in them.

21Not all who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of that in heaven of My Father .
(Matt. 7:21)

Psalm 132:13-17 reads, "For the LORD has chosen Zion; He has desired it for His habitation: This is My resting place forever; here I will dwell, for I have desired it. I will abundantly bless her provision; I will satisfy her poor with bread.

I will also clothe her priests with salvation, and her saints shall shout aloud for joy. There will I make the horn of David grow; I will prepare a lamp for My Anointed."

In these psalms salvation and glory are definitely promised?the ultimate in blessing!

Ro 1:19 Because that known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Gal 4: 26But the earlier Jerusalem is of the free woman, who is our mother.

27For it has been written , Rejoice, O barren woman, who is not giving birth to children{bearing}; burst forth into a joyful shout, those who are not travailing in child birth, for the barren one has many more children than one who has a husband.

28But you, brethren, like Isaac, you are children of a promise.

Gal 5: 1 Christ made us free then in freedom, stand fast , to keep within and do not be joined together again to slavery.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not yoked together with a different kind- unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD

JAdmin
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:06 am Post subject:

Code:

Ro 15:1 We which are strong ought to bear the frailness of them which are weak, and not to stand in our own conceits.
Ro 15:2 Let every man please his neighbor unto his wealth and edifying.
Ro 15:3 For Christ pleased not himself: but as it is written: The rebukes of them which rebuked thee, fell on me.
Ro 15:4 Whatsoever things are written aforetime, are written for our learning that we thorow patience and comfort of the scripture should <might> have hope.
Ro 15:5 <[The]> God which is Lord of patience and consolation, <The God of patience and consolation,> give <|grant|> unto every one of you, that ye be like likeminded one towards another after the ensample of Jesu Christ,
Ro 15:6 that ye all agreeing together, may with one mouth praise God the father of our Lord Jesus.
Ro 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another as Christ received us, to the praise of God.
Ro 15:8 And I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers.
Ro 15:9 And let the gentiles praise God for his <|because of|> mercy. As it is written: For this cause I will praise thee among the gentiles, and sing in thy name.
Ro 15:10 And again he saith: ye gentiles rejoice with his people.
Ro 15:11 <[And]> Again, praise the Lord all ye gentiles, and laud him all nations.
Ro 15:12 And in another place Esaias saith: there shall be the root <rote> of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign <|rule|> over the gentiles: in him shall the gentiles trust.

1 Corinthians 5:9-11

9I wrote unto you in the pistel that ye should not company with fornicators. 10And I meant not at all of the fornicators of this world, either of the covetous, or of extortioners, either of idolaters: for then must ye needs have gone out of the world: 11but now I have written unto you that ye company not together. If any that is called a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a worshipper of images, either a railer, either a drunkard, or an extortioner: with him that is such see ye eat not.

1 Corinthians 10:1-33

1Brethren I would not that ye should be ignorant of this, how that our fathers were all under a cloud, and all passed thorow the sea, 2and were all baptised under Moses in the cloud and in the sea: 3and did all eat of one spiritual meat, 4and did all drink of one manner of spiritual drink. And they drank of that spiritual rock that followed them, which rock was Christ. 5But in many of them had God no delight. For they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6These are examples to us that we should not lust after evil things, as they lusted. 7Neither be ye worshippers of images as were some of them according as it is written: The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up again to play. 8Neither let us commit fornication as some of them committed fornication, and were destroyed in one day twenty three thousand. 9Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them tempted and were destroyed of serpents. 10Neither murmur ye as some of them murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11All these things happened upon them for ensamples, and were written to put us in remembrance, whom the ends of the world are come upon. 12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth, take heed lest he fall. 13There hath none other temptation taken you, but such as followeth the nature of man. God is faithful, which shall not suffer you to be tempted above your strength: but shall in the midst of the temptation make a way to escape out. 14Wherefore my dear beloved, flee from worshipping of idols. 15I speak as unto them which have discretion, judge ye what I say. 16Is not the cup of blessing which we bless, partaking of the blood of Christ? is not the bread which we break, partaking of the body of Christ? 17because that we (though we be many) yet are one bread, and one body inasmuch as we all are partakers of one bread. ([and of one cup]) 18Behold Israel which walketh carnally. Are not they which eat of the sacrifice, partakers of the altar? 19What say I then? that the image is anything? or that it which is offered to images is anything? 20Nay, but I say, that those things which the gentiles offer, they offer to devils, and not to God. And I would not that ye should have fellowship with the devils. 21Ye cannot drink of the cup of the Lord, and of the cup of the devils. Ye can not be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. 22Other shall we provoke the Lord? other are we stronger than he? 23All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient. All things are lawful, but all things edify not. 24Let no man seek his own profit: but let every man seek his neighbors wealth. 25Whatsoever is sold in the market, that eat, and ask no questions for conscience sake. 26For the earth is the Lord's, and all that therein is. 27If any of them which believe not bid you to a feast, and if ye be disposed to go, whatsoever is set before you eat, asking no question for conscience sake; 28but and if any man say unto you: this is dedicated unto idols, eat not of it for his sake that shewed it, and for hurting of conscience: the earth is the Lord's and all that therein is. 29Conscience I say, not thine: but the conscience of that other. Why should my liberty be judged of another man's conscience? 30For if I take my part with thanks: why am I evil spoken of for that thing wherefore I give thanks? 31Whether therefore ye eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the praise of God. 32See that ye give none occasion of evil, neither to the jews, nor yet to the gentiles, neither to the congregation of God: 33even as I please all men in all things not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they might be saved.

Quote:

Ga 3:16 To Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith <seyth> not, in thy <the> seeds as in many: But in thy seed, as in one, which is Christ.
Ga 3:17 This I say that the law which began afterward, beyond four hundred and thirty years, doth not disannul the testament, that was confirmed <[afore]> of God unto Christ ward, to make the promise of none effect.
Ga 3:18 For if the inheritance come of the law, it cometh not of promise: but God gave it unto Abraham by promise.
Ga 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? The law was added because of transgression (till the seed came to which the promise was made) and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. <|given of angels, by the hand of the mediatour|>
Ga 3:20 A mediator is not a mediator of one. <|of one only|> But God is one.
Ga 3:21 Is the law then against the promise of God? God forbid. <[Howbeit]> If there had been a law given which could have given life: then no doubt righteousness should have come by the law:
Ga 3:22 but the scripture concluded all things under sin, that the promise by the faith of Jesus Christ, should be given unto them that believe.

Code:

Ro 3:19 Yea and we know that whatsoever the law saith, he saith it to them which are under the law: That all mouths may be stopped, and all the world be subdued <|may be debter unto|> to God,
Ro 3:20 because that by the deeds of the law, shall no flesh be justified in the sight of God. For by the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

Code:

1Ti 1:8 We know that the law is god, <good> if a man use it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, how that the law is not given unto a righteous man, but unto the unrighteous and disobedient, to the ungodly and to sinners, to unholy and unclean, to murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, to manslayers
1Ti 1:10 and whoremongers: to them that defile themselves with mankind: to menstealers: to liars and to perjured, and so forth if there be any other thing that is contrary to wholesome doctrine
1Ti 1:11 according to the glorious gospel of the holy God, <the gospell of the glory of the blessed God> which gospel <gospell> is committed unto me.

2 Peter 3:8-16

8Dearly beloved be not ignorant of this one thing, how that one day is with the Lord, as a thousand year, and a thousand year as one day. 9The Lord is not slack to fulfil his promise as some men count slackness: but is patient to us ward and would have no man lost, but would receive all men to repentance. 10Nevertheless the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in the which day, the heavens shall perish with terrible noise, and the elements shall melt with heat, and the earth with the works that are therein shall burn. 11If all these things shall perish, what manner persons ought ye to be in holy conversation, and godliness: 12looking for, and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, in which the heavens shall perish with fire, and the elements shall be consumed with heat. 13Nevertheless we look for a new heaven, and a new earth, according to his promise, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14Wherefore dearly beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot and undefiled: 15And suppose that the long suffering of the Lord is health, even as our dearly beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given unto him, wrote to you, 16yea, almost in every pistel speaking of such things: among which are many things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned, and unstable pervert, as they do other scriptures unto their own destruction.

Quote:

Jas 2:10 Whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet fail in one point, he is guilty in all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said: Thou shalt not commit fornication, <adultery> said also: thou shalt not kill. Though thou shalt do no fornication, <do none adultery> yet if thou kill, thou art a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For there shall be judgement merciless to him that sheweth no mercy, and mercy rejoiceth against judgement:
Jas 2:14 What availeth it my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, when he hath no deeds? Can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or a sister be naked or destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 and one of you say unto them: Depart in peace, God send you warmness and food: notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body: what helpeth it them?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it have no deeds is dead in itself.
Jas 2:18 But one shall <Yea and a man might> say: Thou hast faith, and I have deeds: Shew me thy faith by thy deeds: and I will shew thee my faith by my deeds.
Jas 2:19 Believest thou that there is one God? Thou doest well. The devils also believe and tremble.
Jas 2:20 Wilt thou understand o thou vain man, that faith without deeds is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified of his deeds <thorow works> when he offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Thou seest how that faith wrought with in his deeds, and through the deeds was the faith made perfect.
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that of deeds a man is justified, and not of faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Raab the harlot justified when she <justified thorow works, when she> received the messengers, and sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body, without the spirit is dead, even so faith without deeds is dead.

Quote:

Jas 4:11 Backbite not one another, brethren. He that backbiteth his brother, and he that judgeth his brother, backbiteth the law, and judgeth the law: but and if thou judge the law, thou art not an observer of the law: but a judge.
Jas 4:12 There is one law giver, ([and judge]) which is able to save and to destroy. What art thou that judgest another man?
Jas 4:13 Go to now ye that say: today and tomorrow let us go into such a city and continue there a year and buy, and sell, and win:
Jas 4:14 and yet cannot tell what shall happen tomorrow. For what thing is your life? it is even a vapor that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away:
Jas 4:15 For that ye ought to say: if the Lord will and if we live, let us do this or that.
Jas 4:16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings. All such rejoicing is evil.
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth how to do good, and doth it not, <[to him]> it is sin.

_________________

Zechariah 4:6

He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts.

heman
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Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA

Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject:

Quote:

2 Peter 3:8-16 16yea, almost in every pistel speaking of such things: among which are many things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned, and unstable pervert, as they do other scriptures unto their own destruction.

Gal 5:3-12 3 But again I testify to every man being circumcised that he is a debtor to observe the whole Law.
4 Who seek to be justified through the Law, you are rendered useless (severed) from Christ. You have fallen from grace.
5For we, in Spirit, from faith wait for a hope of righteousness.
6For [if we are] in Christ, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is able of anything, but faith {activated and energized} strongly works through love.
7 Running the race well. Who has hindered you not to confide the Truth? {interfered in and stopped you from}
8This persuasion is not from the calling of you. [Who invited you to freedom in Christ].
9A little yeast (a slight inclination to error, or a few false teachers) leavens the entire mix [as the yeast is kneaded it is mixed into the entire thing].
10 I have full reliance of you [toward you] that you will not be high-minded, even as the others. Until the one , or Whoever disseminates religious error {agitating, unsettling}to you, shall bear the judgement.
11But, brethren, if I still preach circumcision [as some accuse me of doing, as necessary to salvation], why am I still persecuted? Then to be in debt to the cross has ceased to be a stumbling block and it has been abolished {done away, made meaningless}.
12 And those disseminating religious error to you shall be cut off!

JAdmin
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Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:22 am Post subject:

Galatians 5:3-12

3I testify again to every man which is circumcised that he is bound to keep the whole law. 4Ye are gone quite from Christ as many as are justified by the law, and are fallen from grace. 5We look for and hope to be justified by the spirit which cometh of faith. 6For in Jesu Christ, neither is circumcision anything worth, neither yet uncircumcision, but faith which by love is mighty in operation. 7Ye did run well. Who was a let unto you, that ye should not obey the truth? (consent unto no man) 8Even that counsel that is not of him that called you. 9A little leaven doth leaven the whole lump of dough. 10I have trust toward you in God, that ye will be none otherwise minded. He that troubleth you shall bear his judgement, whatsoever he be. 11Brethren if I yet preach circumcision: why do I then yet suffer persecution? For then had the offense which the cross giveth ceased. 12I would to God they were sundered from you which trouble you.

_________________

Zechariah 4:6

He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts.

heman
Banned!

Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA

Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject:

JAdmin wrote:

Galatians 5:3-12

Gal 5:11....κατηργηται {has been rendered useless} (2673)
το {the} σκανδαλον {cause of offense}(4625) του {the}
σταυρου {stake; cross}(4717) οφελον {to be in debt to}(3784)

12 And those disseminating religious error (387) to you shall be cut off!
13For you, brethren, were invited (called) towards freedom; only not the freedom for an incentive to your flesh but through love you should be subservient to each other.
14For the entire Law is in one word an abundance in the act of loving your dear ones as [you do] yourself
15But if you bite and consume each other [in partisan strife], be careful lest by means of each other [and your whole fellowship] you may be expended.
16But I say, walking by the Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh (godless human nature); for these are opposed to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are prevented from doing the things you wish to do.
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

JAdmin
Moderator

Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:45 am Post subject:

heman wrote:

JAdmin wrote:

Galatians 5:3-12

Gal 5:11....κατηργηται {has been rendered useless} (2673)
το {the} σκανδαλον {cause of offense}(4625) του {the}
σταυρου {stake; cross}(4717) οφελον {to be in debt to}(3784)

The Greek has it's Greek expression, and the English have it's English expression. Ask any interpreter experienced in translating one language to another and he will tell you that many times translating word for word makes absolutely no sense unless the correct expression is used to convey the "original" right meaning AND intention. Especially from the old Greek expression (can't imagine) that at times differs greatly from the modern Greek; nevermind to another language. That's why William Tyndale said to even look to the Hebraic expression thereof found in the greek words, because the fact of the matter is that the Apostles were Hebrew and thought in the manner of the Hebrews even in their Greek.

Did the Lord and King over all say that the expression of Salvation came onely from the Greeks?

Rather:
Mt 27:37 And they set up over his head the cause of his death written: This is Iesus the King of the Jews.

Code:

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye wot nere <not> what: we know what we worship. For salvation cometh of the jews.

heman wrote:

12 And those disseminating religious error (387) to you shall be cut off!
13For you, brethren, were invited (called) towards freedom; only not the freedom for an incentive to your flesh but through love you should be subservient to each other.
14For the entire Law is in one word an abundance in the act of loving your dear ones as [you do] yourself
15But if you bite and consume each other [in partisan strife], be careful lest by means of each other [and your whole fellowship] you may be expended.
16But I say, walking by the Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh (godless human nature); for these are opposed to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are prevented from doing the things you wish to do.
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Galatians 5:11-18

11Brethren if I yet preach circumcision: why do I then yet suffer persecution? For then had the offense which the cross giveth ceased. 12I would to God they were sundered from you which trouble you. 13Brethren ye were called into liberty, only let not your liberty be an occasion unto the flesh but in love ([of the spirit]) serve one another. 14For all the law is fulfilled in one word, which is this: Thou shalt love thine neighbour as thyself. 15If ye bite and devour one another: take heed lest ye be consumed one of another. 16I say walk in the spirit, and fulfil not the lusts of the flesh. 17For the flesh lusteth contrary to the spirit, and the spirit contrary to the flesh. These are contrary one to the other, so that ye cannot do that which ye would. 18But and if ye be led of the spirit, then are ye not under the law.

That brings to remembrance:

Ro 7:22 I delight in the law of God, as concerning the inner man.
Ro 7:23 But I see another law in my members rebelling against the law of my mind, and subduing me unto the law of sin, which is in my members.
Ro 7:24 O wretched man that I am: who shall deliver me from this body of death?
Ro 7:25 I thank God by <thorow> Jesus Christ our Lord: So then I myself in my mind serve the law of God, and in my flesh the law of sin.

Again it's no wonder Peter said:

2Pe 3:15 And suppose that the long suffering of the Lord is health, <salvation> even as our dearly beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given unto him, wrote to you,
2Pe 3:16 yea, almost in every pistel <almost in very pistle> speaking of such things: among which are many things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned, and unstable pervert, as they do other scriptures unto their own destruction. <|also, to their own damnation|>

Code:

Jas 2:13 For there shall be judgement merciless to him that sheweth no mercy, and mercy rejoiceth against judgement:

_________________

Zechariah 4:6

He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts.

Last edited by JAdmin on Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

heman
Banned!

Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject:

JAdmin wrote:

heman wrote:

JAdmin wrote:

Galatians 5:3-12

The Greek has it's Greek expression, and the English have it's English expression. Ask any interpreter experienced in translating one language to another and he will tell you that many times translating word for word makes absolutely no sense unless the correct expression is used to convey the "original" right meaning. Especially from the old Greek expression (I can't imagine) that at times differs greatly from the modern Greek; nevermind to another language. That's why William Tyndale said to even look to the Hebraic expression thereof found in the greek words, because the fact of the matter is that the Apostles were Hebrew and thought in the manner of the Hebrews even in their Greek.

Did the Lord and King over all say that the expression of Salvation came onely from the Greeks?

Rather:
Mt 27:37 And they set up over his head the cause of his death written: This is Iesus the King of the Jews.

Code:

Joh 4:22 Ye worship ye wot nere <not> what: we know what we worship. For salvation cometh of the jews.

heman wrote:

Galatians 5:11-18

Code:

Jas 2:13 For there shall be judgement merciless to him that sheweth no mercy, and mercy rejoiceth against judgement:

Sorry but the translators who numbered the verses placed the 12 in the wrong position; As a matter of fact there were no verses or punctuation in the Greek!
Gal 5:11....κατηργηται {has been rendered useless} (2673)
το {the} σκανδαλον {cause of offense}(4625) του {the}
σταυρου {stake; cross}(4717) οφελον {to be in debt to}(3784)Strong's 3784 To owe, be in debt, be indebted to; 1) to owe 1a) to owe money, be in debt for 1a1) that which is due, the debt 2) metaph. the goodwill due
Hebrew Equivalent :
02326 bwx chowb khobe 1) a debt, debtor

12 And those disseminating religious error (387) to you shall be cut off!

The word for would is Strong's
1014 βουλομαι (WOULD) (1) to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded 2) of willing as an affection, to desire

2 Tim 2:16-18 The weight of responsibility is heavy on the minister. Not only is he to give instruction that is plain and clear, he is also to give instruction that is right on target so people do not get distracted by false doctrine. A minister can be perfectly sincere, but if he points his teaching toward the wrong goal, he will miss the target. Fortunately, our God is faithful and makes every effort to turn us toward the right goal.

These metaphors and illustrations show how important doctrine and having the right gospel are. Doctrine forms belief; belief determines action and character. Minimizing the future aspects of the gospel alters our vision of where we are going with our lives.

The future aspects of the gospel cannot be demoted in priority to second or third place without seriously compromising our Christian lives since it removes the right goal and deflects people away from the Kingdom of God. When people are deflected from the right goal, the teaching of the gospel changes, and God's creative process begins to wind down and may even stop entirely.

JAdmin
Moderator

Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279

Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject:

Heman wrote:

Sorry but the translators who numbered the verses placed the 12 in the wrong position; As a matter of fact there were no verses or punctuation in the Greek!

Of course.. but you have no grounds to say "wrong position".
The first complete New Testament English translations by Wycliffe and Tyndale had no verses either. The reason why I have brought the original WT work in verse form is for easy comparison sake. Though it still makes sense when read as a whole by acknowledging what it says, and not just because it was translated from some old manuscripts that agreed altogether likewise. Yea rather again it is by comparing Scripture with Scripture as a holy whole for how it says according to the Law and the Testimony that makes it verity.

----------------------

Heman wrote:

Gal 5:11....κατηργηται {has been rendered useless} (2673)
το {the} σκανδαλον {cause of offense}(4625) του {the}
σταυρου {stake; cross}(4717) οφελον {to be in debt to}(3784)Strong's 3784 To owe, be in debt, be indebted to; 1) to owe 1a) to owe money, be in debt for 1a1) that which is due, the debt 2) metaph. the goodwill due
Hebrew Equivalent :
02326 bwx chowb khobe 1) a debt, debtor

12 And those disseminating religious error (387) to you shall be cut off!

The word for would is Strong's
1014 βουλομαι (WOULD) (1) to will deliberately, have a purpose, be minded 2) of willing as an affection, to desire

2 Tim 2:16-18 The weight of responsibility is heavy on the minister. Not only is he to give instruction that is plain and clear, he is also to give instruction that is right on target so people do not get distracted by false doctrine. A minister can be perfectly sincere, but if he points his teaching toward the wrong goal, he will miss the target. Fortunately, our God is faithful and makes every effort to turn us toward the right goal.

These metaphors and illustrations show how important doctrine and having the right gospel are. Doctrine forms belief; belief determines action and character. Minimizing the future aspects of the gospel alters our vision of where we are going with our lives.

The future aspects of the gospel cannot be demoted in priority to second or third place without seriously compromising our Christian lives since it removes the right goal and deflects people away from the Kingdom of God. When people are deflected from the right goal, the teaching of the gospel changes, and God's creative process begins to wind down and may even stop entirely.

You may think that makes you sound very smart, but nonetheless gives absolutely no edification whatsoever taking into account the real English expression:

Galatians 5:11-12

11Brethren if I yet preach circumcision: why do I then yet suffer persecution? For then had the offense which the cross giveth ceased. 12I would to God they were sundered from you which trouble you.

2 Timothy 2:16-18

16Unghostly and vain voices pass over. For they shall increase unto greater ungodliness, 17and their words shall fret even as doth a canker: of whose number is Hymeneos and Philetos, 18which as concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and do destroy the faith of divers persons.

_________________

Zechariah 4:6

He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts.

Last edited by JAdmin on Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

heman
Banned!

Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:24 pm Post subject:

JAdmin wrote:

Heman wrote:

Sorry but the translators who numbered the verses placed the 12 in the wrong position; As a matter of fact there were no verses or punctuation in the Greek!

Heman wrote:

You may think that makes you sound very smart, but nonetheless gives absolutely no edification whatsoever taking into account the real English expression:

Galatians 5:11-12

11Brethren if I yet preach circumcision: why do I then yet suffer persecution? For then had the offense which the cross giveth ceased. 12I would to God they were sundered from you which trouble you.

2 Timothy 2:16-18

Titus 3:1 -7 1REMIND PEOPLE to be submissive to [their] magistrates and authorities, to be obedient, to be prepared and willing to do any upright and honorable work,
2To slander or abuse or speak evil of no one, to avoid being contentious, to be forbearing (yielding, gentle, and conciliatory), and to show unqualified courtesy toward everybody.
3For we also were once thoughtless and senseless, obstinate and disobedient, deluded and misled; [we too were once] slaves to all sorts of cravings and pleasures, wasting our days in malice and jealousy and envy, hateful (hated, detestable) and hating one another.
4But when the goodness and loving-kindness of God our Savior to man [as man] appeared,
5He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6Which He poured out [so] richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior.
7[And He did it in order] that we might be justified by His grace (by His favor, wholly undeserved), [that we might be acknowledged and counted as conformed to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action], and that we might become heirs of eternal life according to [our] hope.
Some definitions:
5623 wfelew ( οφιλε ) opheleo o-fel-eh'-o from the same as 5622; ; vAV-profit 11, prevail 2, better 1, advantage 1; 151) to assist, to be useful or advantageous, to profit
2 Cor 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought 3784 STRONG but actually is (ωφειλον 5623.1 PROFIT) to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
Ga 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
5622 wfeleia opheleia o-fel'-i-ahfrom a derivative of the base of 5624; ; n f AV-profit 1, advantage 1; 2 1) usefulness, advantage, profit

1163 dei dei die
AV-must 58, ought 31, must needs 5, should 4, misc 7, vr ought 1;
5534 crh chre khray AV-ought 1; 1 1) it is necessary΄2) it behooves

Ro 13:8 Owe (3784) no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then {must ye needs (3784)} go out of the world.
1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due (3784) benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should(3784) plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1 Cor 4: 8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God (3784) ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.
Ga 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.(2309)
2 Cor 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2309 yelw thelo thel'-o or eyelw ethelo eth-el'-o in certain tenses yelew theleo thel-eh'-o and eyelew etheleo eth-el-eh'-o which are otherwise obsolete AV-will/would 159, will/would have 16, desire 13, desirous 3, list 3, to will 2, misc 4; 210

Heb 2:17 (5622) ωφειλε But Strongs incorrectly has it as 3784

Gal 5:11....κατηργηται {has been rendered useless} (2673)
το {the} σκανδαλον {cause of offense}(4625) του {the}
σταυρου {stake; cross}(4717) οφελον {to be in debt to}(3784)

JAdmin
Moderator

Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279

Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject:

Heman wrote:

When it comes to the faith, the devout are at liberty in verity to express it. Yea thank God that he has no respect of persons and rather tells it like it is:

Titus 3:1-2

1Warn them that they submit themselves to rule and power, to obey the officers, that they be prompt unto all good works, 2that they speak evil of no man, that they be no fighters, but soft, shewing all meekness unto all men.

Code:

Jas 2:1 Brethren have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ the Lord of glory in respect of persons.

Quote:

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come, when they will not suffer wholesome doctrine: but after their own lusts shall they (whose ears itch) get them an heap of teachers,
2Ti 4:4 and shall turn their ears from the truth, and shall be given unto fables:
2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, and suffer adversity, and do the work of an evangelist, <|preacher of the Gospell|> fulfil thine office unto the utmost. (Be sober.)

---------------------

Heman wrote:

3For we also were once thoughtless and senseless, obstinate and disobedient, deluded and misled; [we too were once] slaves to all sorts of cravings and pleasures, wasting our days in malice and jealousy and envy, hateful (hated, detestable) and hating one another.
4But when the goodness and loving-kindness of God our Savior to man [as man] appeared,
5He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6Which He poured out [so] richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior.
7[And He did it in order] that we might be justified by His grace (by His favor, wholly undeserved), [that we might be acknowledged and counted as conformed to the divine will in purpose, thought, and action], and that we might become heirs of eternal life according to [our] hope.

Titus 3:3-18

3For we ourselves also were in times past, unwise, disobedient, deceived, in danger to lusts, and to divers manners of voluptuousness, living in maliciousness and envy, full of hate, hating one another. 4But after that the kindness and love of our saviour to man ward appeared, 5not of the deeds of righteousness which we wrought, but of his mercy, he saved us, by the fountain of the new birth, and with the renewing of the holy ghost, 6which he shed on us abundantly, thorow Jesus Christ our saviour, 7that we once justified by his grace, should be heirs of eternal life, thorow hope. 8This is a true saying. Of these things I would thou shouldest certify, that they which believe God, might be studious to go forward in good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9Foolish questions, and genealogies, and brawlings and strife about the law avoid, for they are unprofitable, and superfluous. 10A man that is the author of sects, after the first and the second admonition avoid, 11remembering that he that is such, is perverted, and sinneth, even damned by his own judgement. 12When I shall send Artemas unto thee or Tichicus be diligent to come to me unto Nichopolis. For I have determined there to winter. 13Bring Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey diligently, that nothing be lacking unto them. 14And let ours also learn to excel in good works as far forth as need requireth, that they be not unfruitful. 15All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all, Amen. [Here ends the epistle of saint Paul the Apostle unto Titus] Written from Nichopolis a city of Macedonia.

---------------------

Heman wrote:

Some definitions:
5623 wfelew ( οφιλε ) opheleo o-fel-eh'-o from the same as 5622; ; vAV-profit 11, prevail 2, better 1, advantage 1; 151) to assist, to be useful or advantageous, to profit
2 Cor 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought 3784 STRONG but actually is (ωφειλον 5623.1 PROFIT) to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.
Ga 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
5622 wfeleia opheleia o-fel'-i-ahfrom a derivative of the base of 5624; ; n f AV-profit 1, advantage 1; 2 1) usefulness, advantage, profit

1163 dei dei die
AV-must 58, ought 31, must needs 5, should 4, misc 7, vr ought 1;
5534 crh chre khray AV-ought 1; 1 1) it is necessary΄2) it behooves

Ro 13:8 Owe (3784) no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then {must ye needs (3784)} go out of the world.
1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due (3784) benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
1Co 9:10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should(3784) plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
1 Cor 4: 8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God (3784) ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.
Ga 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.(2309)
2 Cor 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2309 yelw thelo thel'-o or eyelw ethelo eth-el'-o in certain tenses yelew theleo thel-eh'-o and eyelew etheleo eth-el-eh'-o which are otherwise obsolete AV-will/would 159, will/would have 16, desire 13, desirous 3, list 3, to will 2, misc 4; 210

WT wrote:

2 Corinthians 12:11-12

11I am made a fool in boasting myself. Ye have compelled me: I ought to have been commended of you. For in nothing was I inferior unto the chief apostles, though I be nothing, 12yet the tokens of an apostle were wrought among you with all patience: with signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Galatians 5:2

Behold I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing at all.

Romans 13:8

Owe no thing to any man: but to love one another. For he that loveth another, fulfilleth the law.

1 Corinthians 5:10-11

10And I meant not at all of the fornicators of this world, either of the covetous, or of extortioners, either of idolaters: for then must ye needs have gone out of the world: 11but now I have written unto you that ye company not together. If any that is called a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a worshipper of images, either a railer, either a drunkard, or an extortioner: with him that is such see ye eat not.

Code:

Ga 2:3 Also Titus which was with me, though he were a greek, yet was not compelled to be circumcised,
Ga 2:4 and that because of incomers being false brethren, which came in among others to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage.

1 Corinthians 7:3

Let the man give unto the wife due benevolence. Likewise also the wife unto the man.

1 Corinthians 9:10

Either saith he it not all together for our sakes? For our sakes no doubt this is written: that he which eareth should ear in hope: and that he which thresheth in hope, should be partaker of his hope.

1 Corinthians 4:8

Now ye are full: now ye are made rich: ye reign as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we might reign with you.

Galatians 5:17

For the flesh lusteth contrary to the spirit, and the spirit contrary to the flesh. These are contrary one to the other, so that ye cannot do that which ye would.

2 Corinthians 11:1

Would to God, ye could suffer me a little in my foolishness: yea, and I pray you forbear me.

-----------

Heman wrote:

Heb 2:17 (5622) ωφειλεν But Strongs incorrectly has it as 3784

3784 refers to the correct Greek word.
What ought to be pondered is how does that word rightly apply to the passage when eloquently expressed in English:

Heb 2:17 θεον whereby ωφειλεν it became him, or a new word that just found most appropriate: bequeathed

Noah Webster's dictionary wrote:

\Be*queath"\ (b[-e]*kw[=e][th]"), v. t. [imp. & p. p.
{Bequeathed}; p. pr. & vb. n. {Bequeathing}.] [OE. biquethen,
AS. becwe[eth]an to say, affirm, bequeath; pref. be- +
cwe[eth]an to say, speak. See {Quoth}.]
1. To give or leave by will; to give by testament; -- said
especially of personal property.

My heritage, which my dead father did bequeath to
me. --Shak.

2. To hand down; to transmit.

To bequeath posterity somewhat to remember it.
--Glanvill.

3. To give; to offer; to commit. [Obs.]

To whom, with all submission, on my knee I do
bequeath my faithful services And true subjection
everlastingly. --Shak.

Syn: To {Bequeath}, {Devise}.

Usage: Both these words denote the giving or disposing of
property by will. Devise, in legal usage, is property
used to denote a gift by will of real property, and he
to whom it is given is called the devisee. Bequeath is
properly applied to a gift by will or legacy; i. e.,
of personal property; the gift is called a legacy, and
he who receives it is called a legatee. In popular
usage the word bequeath is sometimes enlarged so as to
embrace devise; and it is sometimes so construed by
courts.

Hebrews 2:15-18

15And that he might deliver them which thorow fear of death all their life time were in danger of bondage. 16For he in no place taketh on him the angels: but the seed of Abraham taketh he on him. 17Wherefore in all things it became him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be merciful, and a faithful high priest in things concerning God, for to purge the people's sins. 18For in that he himself suffered, and was tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

In this manner the statement gives glory to the inspiration of God!

----------------------

Heman wrote:

We are indebted alright to the martyrs that followed Christ, otherwise we would not have the Scripture liberty we have today.

5:11 εγω δε αδελφοι ει περιτομην ετι κηρυσσω τι ετι διωκομαι αρα κατηργηται 2673 5769 το σκανδαλον 4625 του 3588 σταυρου 4616
5:12 οφελον 3785 και αποκοψονται οι αναστατουντες υμας

Galatians 5:11-12

11Brethren if I yet preach circumcision: why do I then yet suffer persecution? For then had the offense which the cross giveth ceased. 12I would to God they were sundered from you which trouble you.

Original Strongs Lexicon:

Word: οφειλω
Pronounc: of-i'-lo
Strong: G3784
Transliter: opheilo
or (in certain tenses), its prolonged form opheileo of-i-leh'-o, probably from the base of 3786 (through the idea of accruing); to owe (pecuniarily); figuratively, to be under obligation (ought, must, should); morally, to fail in duty:--behove, be bound, (be) debt(-or), (be) due(-ty), be guilty (indebted), (must) need(-s), ought, owe, should. See also 3785.

Word: οφελος
Pronounc: of'-el-os
Strong: G3786
Transliter: ophelos
from ophello (to heap up, i.e. accumulate or benefit); gain:--advantageth, profit.

Word: οφελον
Pronounc: of'-el-on
Strong: G3785
Transliter: ophelon
first person singular of a past tense of 3784; I ought (wish), i.e. (interjection) oh that!:--would (to God).

Related Hebrew words:

Word: בוש
Pronounc: boosh
Strong: H954
Transliter: buwsh
a primitive root; properly, to pale, i.e. by implication to be ashamed; also (by implication) to be disappointed or delayed:--(be, make, bring to, cause, put to, with, a-)shamed(-d), be (put to) confounded(-fusion), become dry, delay, be long.

Word: נשה
Pronounc: naw-shaw'
Strong: H5377
Transliter: nasha'
a primitive root; to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce:--beguile, deceive, X greatly, X utterly.

Code:

2Th 2:1 We beseech <|beseek|> you brethren by the coming of our Lord Jesu Christ, and in that we shall assemble unto him,
2Th 2:2 that ye be not suddenly moved from your mind, and be not troubled, neither by spirit, neither by words, nor yet by letter, which should seem to come from us, as though the day of Christ were at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for the Lord cometh not, except there come a departing first, and that that sinful man <|man of sin|> be opened, the son of perdition
2Th 2:4 which is an adversary, and is exalted above all that is called god, or that is worshipped: <|called God or Gods service|> so that he shall sit <|sitteth as God|> in the temple of god, and shew himself as <|boasteth himself to be|> god. <so that he shall sit as God in temple of god>
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth: even that he might be uttered at his time.
2Th 2:7 For already the mystery of iniquity worketh. Only he that holdeth, let him now hold, until it <hit> be taken out of the way, <For the mystery of that iniquity doeth he all ready work which only looketh, till he which now only letteth be taken out of the way>
2Th 2:8 and then shall that wicked be uttered, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the appearance of his coming,
2Th 2:9 even him whose coming is by <|after|> the working of Satan, with all lying power, signs, and wonders:
2Th 2:10 and in all deceivableness of unrighteousness, among them that perish: because they received not the love of the truth, <trueth> that they might have been saved.
2Th 2:11 And therefore God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe lies:
2Th 2:12 that all they might be damned which believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2Th 2:13 <But> We are bound to give thanks alway to God for you brethren beloved of the Lord, for because that God hath from the beginning chosen you to health, <salvation> thorow sanctifying of the spirit; And thorow believing the truth: <trueth>
2Th 2:14 whereunto he called you by our gospel, <gospell> to obtain the glory that cometh of our Lord Jesu Christ.

_________________

Zechariah 4:6

He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts.

Last edited by JAdmin on Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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