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JAdmin
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 Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:09 am Post subject: Re: Creation |
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| heman wrote: | So sorry, the verses you gave are CREATION:
κτισις 2937
Creation, construction,
production; an
institution.
Ps 104:24
Mk 10:6
13:19
16:15
Rm 1:20,25
8:19?22,39
2Co 5:17
Gal 6:15
Col 1:15,23
Heb 4:13
9:11
1P 2:13
2P 3:4
Rev 3:14
THESE ARE THE VERSES FOR CREATURE:κτισμα 2938
A creation, a creature.
1Ti 4:4
Js 1:18
Rev 5:13
8:9 |
Actually strong's number G2937 says it can also mean creature according to it's definition:
| Code: | Word: κτισει
Strong: G2937
Transliter: ktisis
from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance. |
Even according to the modernly updated Strong's numbers it says:
| Code: | Word: κτισει
Pronounc: ktis'-is
Strong: G2937
Orig: from G2936
Use: TDNT-3:1000,481 Noun Feminine
HE Strong: H1952 H7075
1) the act of founding, establishing, building etc
1a) the act of creating, creation
1b) creation i.e. thing created
1b1) of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation
1b1a) anything created
1b1b) after a rabbinical usage (by which a man converted from idolatry to Judaism was called)
1b1c) the sum or aggregate of things created
1c) institution, ordinance |
So what if there's another word for creature like G2938:
| Code: | Word: κτισμα
Pronounc: ktis'-mah
Strong: G2938
Transliter: ktisma
from 2936; an original formation (concretely), i.e. product (created thing):--creature.
Modern Strong G2938
Use: TDNT-3:1000,481 Noun Neuter
1) thing founded
2) created thing
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In this case doesn't mean that there's no other words that can't resemble the same. And in translating one language to another, there's many such cases.. Specially taking into account that both strongs' G2938 & G2937 have the same root G2936:
| Code: | Word: κτιςω
Pronounc: ktid'-zo
Strong: G2936
Transliter: ktizo
probably akin to 2932 (through the idea of proprietorship of the manufacturer); to fabricate, i.e. found (form originally):--create, Creator, make.
Modern Strong: G2936
Orig: probably akin to G2932 (through the idea of proprietor-ship of the manufacturer)
Use: TDNT-3:1000,481 Verb
HE Strong: H1254 H3245 H3335 H3559 H5975 H7069 H7931
1) to make habitable, to people, a place, region, island
1a) to found a city, colony, state
2) to create
2a) of God creating the worlds
2b) to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform
Word: ktaomai
Pronounc: ktah'-om-ahee
Strong: G2932
Transliter: ktaomai
a primary verb; to get, i.e. acquire (by any means; own):--obtain, possess, provide, purchase.
Modern Strong: G2932
Word: ktaomai
HE Strong: H1167 H1961 H3205 H3425 H3947 H4376 H5157 H6213 H7069 H7408
1) to acquire, get, or procure a thing for one's self, to possess
1a) to marry a wife |
Besides, the definition of creature also states it as being anything created, whether animate or inanimate.
Other than English I fluently speak more than one language (Portuguese and Spanish that have it's unique expressions) and thus understand how that in translation William Tyndale had a great grasp on the original tongues to express it's true English significance depending on the passage. And of course in Christ he was at liberty to thus express it.
Yea such as:
| 1 Timothy 4:1-5 | | 1The spirit speaketh evidently that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, and shall give heed unto spirits of error, 2and devilish doctrine of them which speak false thorow hypocrisy, and have their consciences marked with an hot iron, 3forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with giving thanks, of them which believe, and know the truth, 4for all the creatures of God are good: and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God, and prayer. |
| James 1:18 | | Of his own will begat he us with the word of life, that we should be the first of his creatures. |
| Revelation 5:13 | | And all creatures, which are in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and in the sea, and all that are in them heard I saying: blessing, honour, glory, and power be unto him, that sitteth upon the seat, and unto the lamb for evermore. |
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
Banned!
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Creation |
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| JAdmin wrote: | | heman wrote: | So sorry, the verses you gave are CREATION:
κτισις 2937
Creation, construction,
production; an
institution.
Ps 104:24
Mk 10:6
13:19
16:15
Rm 1:20,25
8:19?22,39
2Co 5:17
Gal 6:15
Col 1:15,23
Heb 4:13
9:11
1P 2:13
2P 3:4
Rev 3:14
THESE ARE THE VERSES FOR CREATURE:κτισμα 2938
A creation, a creature.
1Ti 4:4
Js 1:18
Rev 5:13
8:9 |
Actually strong's number G2937 says it can also mean creature according to it's definition:
| Code: | Word: κτισει
Strong: G2937
Transliter: ktisis
from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance. |
Even according to the modernly updated Strong's numbers it says:
| Code: | Word: κτισει
Pronounc: ktis'-is
Strong: G2937
Orig: from G2936
Use: TDNT-3:1000,481 Noun Feminine
HE Strong: H1952 H7075
1) the act of founding, establishing, building etc
1a) the act of creating, creation
1b) creation i.e. thing created
1b1) of individual things, beings, a creature, a creation
1b1a) anything created
1b1b) after a rabbinical usage (by which a man converted from idolatry to Judaism was called)
1b1c) the sum or aggregate of things created
1c) institution, ordinance |
So what if there's another word for creature like G2938:
| Code: | Word: κτισμα
Pronounc: ktis'-mah
Strong: G2938
Transliter: ktisma
from 2936; an original formation (concretely), i.e. product (created thing):--creature.
Modern Strong G2938
Use: TDNT-3:1000,481 Noun Neuter
1) thing founded
2) created thing
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In this case doesn't mean that there's no other words that can't resemble the same. And in translating one language to another, there's many such cases.. Specially taking into account that both strongs' G2938 & G2937 have the same root G2936:
| Code: | Word: κτιςω
Pronounc: ktid'-zo
Strong: G2936
Transliter: ktizo
probably akin to 2932 (through the idea of proprietorship of the manufacturer); to fabricate, i.e. found (form originally):--create, Creator, make.
Modern Strong: G2936
Orig: probably akin to G2932 (through the idea of proprietor-ship of the manufacturer)
Use: TDNT-3:1000,481 Verb
HE Strong: H1254 H3245 H3335 H3559 H5975 H7069 H7931
1) to make habitable, to people, a place, region, island
1a) to found a city, colony, state
2) to create
2a) of God creating the worlds
2b) to form, shape, i.e. to completely change or transform
Word: ktaomai
Pronounc: ktah'-om-ahee
Strong: G2932
Transliter: ktaomai
a primary verb; to get, i.e. acquire (by any means; own):--obtain, possess, provide, purchase.
Modern Strong: G2932
Word: ktaomai
HE Strong: H1167 H1961 H3205 H3425 H3947 H4376 H5157 H6213 H7069 H7408
1) to acquire, get, or procure a thing for one's self, to possess
1a) to marry a wife |
Besides, the definition of creature also states it as being anything created, whether animate or inanimate.
Other than English I fluently speak more than one language (Portuguese and Spanish that have it's unique expressions) and thus understand how that in translation William Tyndale had a great grasp on the original tongues to express it's true English significance depending on the passage. And of course in Christ he was at liberty to thus express it.
Yea such as:
| 1 Timothy 4:1-5 | | 1The spirit speaketh evidently that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, and shall give heed unto spirits of error, 2and devilish doctrine of them which speak false thorow hypocrisy, and have their consciences marked with an hot iron, 3forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with giving thanks, of them which believe, and know the truth, 4for all the creatures of God are good: and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5For it is sanctified by the word of God, and prayer. |
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1 Tim 4:4Current word: Creature
Inflected form: κτισμα (2938)
Base form: κτισμα
Major1: noun
Case: nominative
Number: singular
Gender: neuter
| Jadmin wrote: | | James 1:18 | | Of his own will begat he us with the word of life, that we should be the first of his creatures. |
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Same κτισμα
| Jadmin wrote: | | Revelation 5:13 | | And all creatures, which are in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and in the sea, and all that are in them heard I saying: blessing, honour, glory, and power be unto him, that sitteth upon the seat, and unto the lamb for evermore. |
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Respectfully, let us consider Romans.
Rom 1:25; 8:19-39 Col 1:15,23 Current word : Creation/ create
Inflected form: κτισει (2937)
Base form: κτισις
Major1: noun
Case: dative
Number: singular
Gender: feminine
Why should we know that the words spoken were CREATION?
Ro 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
RO 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation (2937) of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creation (2937):
Ro 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the (world;mankind) creation (2937) more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Ro 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation (2937) waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creation (2937) that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Ro 8:20 For the creation (2937) was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Ga 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Ro 8:21 Because the creation (2937) itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation (2937) groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they (THE WHOLE CREATION), but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.(into the glorious liberty of the children of God.)
Ro 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creation (2937), shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
Moderator
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: Creature & Creation |
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Strong's dictionary was right about G2937 to also mean creature among other meanings.
| Code: | Word: κτισει
Strong: G2937
Transliter: ktisis
from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance. |
Just lookup the definition for "creature" and "creation".
Thus even according to Easton's 1897 dictionary:
| Quote: | | creature denotes the whole creation in Rom. 8:39; Col. 1:15; Rev. 5:13; the whole human race in Mark 16:15; Rom. 8:19-22. |
The significance of Creature and Creation (in English) can be synonymous depending on how it's used, so that is not a problem at all. Thus there's liberty to use that word in a sentence depending on how it's expressed. And it may also refer to a plurality or singularity depending on the passage. Ask any interpreter, and will tell you that it's impossible to always have the same word syntax for an exact word translation because it does not always convey the same right expression for the given language and it's phraseology.
In 1530 WT adverted about such dire dangers of those judging things so prematurely; when he made mention on his prologue to the Pentateuch:
| Quote: | ? When I had translated the new testament, I added a pistel unto the latter end, in which I desired them that were learned to amend if ought were found amiss. But our malicious and wily hypocrites which are so stubborn and hard hearted in their wicked abominations that it is not possible for them to amend any thing at all (as we see by daily experience, when both their livings and doings are rebuked with the truth) say, some of them that it is impossible to translate the scripture into English, some that it is not lawful for the lay people to have it in their mother tongue, some, that it would make them all heretics, as it would no doubt from many things which they of long time have falsely taught, and that is the whole cause wherefore they forbid it, though they other cloaks pretend. And some or rather every one, say that it would make them rise against the king, whom they themselves (unto their damnation) never yet obeyed. And lest the temporal rulers should see their falsehood, if the scripture came to light, causeth them so to lie. And as for my translation in which they affirm unto the lay people (as I have heard say) to be I wot not how many thousand heresies, so that it cannot be mended or correct, they have yet taken so great pain to examine it, and to compare it unto that they would fain have it and to their own imaginations and juggling terms, and to have somewhat to rail at, and under that cloak to blaspheme the truth, that they might with as little labour (as I suppose) have translated the most part of the bible. For they which in times past were wont to look on no more scripture than they found in their Duns or such like devilish doctrine, have yet now so narrowly looked on my translation, that there is not so much as one i therein if it lack a tittle over his head, but they have noted it, and number it unto the ignorant people for an heresy. Finally in this they be all agreed, to drive you from the knowledge of the scripture, and that ye shall not have the text thereof in the mother tongue, and to keep the world still in darkness, to the intent they might sit in the consciences of the people, thorow vain superstition and false doctrine, to satisfy their filthy lusts, their proud ambition, and unsatiable covetousness, and to exalt their own honour above king and emperor, yea and above God himself.
? A thousand books had they lever to be put forth against their abominable doings and doctrine, than that the scripture should come to light. For as long as they may keep that down, they will so darken the right way with the mist of their sophistry, and so tangle them that either rebuke or despise their abominations with arguments of philosophy and with wordily {worldly} similitudes and apparent reasons of natural wisdom. And with wresting the scripture unto their own purpose clean contrary unto the process, order and meaning of the text, and so delude them in descanting upon it with allegories, and amaze them expounding it in many senses before the unlearned lay people (when it hath but one simple literal sense whose light the owls cannot abide) that though thou feel in thine heart and art sure how that all is false that they say, yet couldst thou not solve their subtle riddles.
? Which thing only moved me to translate the new testament. Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: for else whatsoever truth is taught them, these enemies of all truth quench it again, partly with the smoke of their bottomless pit whereof thou readest Apocalypse ix.{9} that is, with apparent reasons of sophistry, and traditions of their own making, founded without ground of scripture, and partly in juggling with the text, expounding it in such a sense as is impossible to gather of the text, if thou see the process, order, and meaning thereof.
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_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
Banned!
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Creature & Creation |
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| JAdmin wrote: | Strong's dictionary was right about G2937 to also mean creature among other meanings.
| Code: | Word: κτισει
Strong: G2937
Transliter: ktisis
from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance. |
Just lookup the definition for "creature" and "creation".
Thus even according to Easton's 1897 dictionary:
| Quote: | | creature denotes the whole creation in Rom. 8:39; Col. 1:15; Rev. 5:13; the whole human race in Mark 16:15; Rom. 8:19-22. |
The significance of Creature and Creation (in English) can be synonymous depending on how it's used, so that is not a problem at all. Thus there's liberty to use that word in a sentence depending on how it's expressed. And it may also refer to a plurality or singularity depending on the passage. Ask any interpreter, and will tell you that it's impossible to always have the same word syntax for an exact word translation because it does not always convey the same right expression for the given language and it's phraseology.
In 1530 WT adverted about such dire dangers of those judging things so prematurely; when he made mention on his prologue to the Pentateuch:
| Quote: | ? When I had translated the new testament, I added a pistel unto the latter end, in which I desired them that were learned to amend if ought were found amiss. But our malicious and wily hypocrites which are so stubborn and hard hearted in their wicked abominations that it is not possible for them to amend any thing at all (as we see by daily experience, when both their livings and doings are rebuked with the truth) say, some of them that it is impossible to translate the scripture into English, some that it is not lawful for the lay people to have it in their mother tongue, some, that it would make them all heretics, as it would no doubt from many things which they of long time have falsely taught, and that is the whole cause wherefore they forbid it, though they other cloaks pretend. And some or rather every one, say that it would make them rise against the king, whom they themselves (unto their damnation) never yet obeyed. And lest the temporal rulers should see their falsehood, if the scripture came to light, causeth them so to lie. And as for my translation in which they affirm unto the lay people (as I have heard say) to be I wot not how many thousand heresies, so that it cannot be mended or correct, they have yet taken so great pain to examine it, and to compare it unto that they would fain have it and to their own imaginations and juggling terms, and to have somewhat to rail at, and under that cloak to blaspheme the truth, that they might with as little labour (as I suppose) have translated the most part of the bible. For they which in times past were wont to look on no more scripture than they found in their Duns or such like devilish doctrine, have yet now so narrowly looked on my translation, that there is not so much as one i therein if it lack a tittle over his head, but they have noted it, and number it unto the ignorant people for an heresy. Finally in this they be all agreed, to drive you from the knowledge of the scripture, and that ye shall not have the text thereof in the mother tongue, and to keep the world still in darkness, to the intent they might sit in the consciences of the people, thorow vain superstition and false doctrine, to satisfy their filthy lusts, their proud ambition, and unsatiable covetousness, and to exalt their own honour above king and emperor, yea and above God himself.
? A thousand books had they lever to be put forth against their abominable doings and doctrine, than that the scripture should come to light. For as long as they may keep that down, they will so darken the right way with the mist of their sophistry, and so tangle them that either rebuke or despise their abominations with arguments of philosophy and with wordily {worldly} similitudes and apparent reasons of natural wisdom. And with wresting the scripture unto their own purpose clean contrary unto the process, order and meaning of the text, and so delude them in descanting upon it with allegories, and amaze them expounding it in many senses before the unlearned lay people (when it hath but one simple literal sense whose light the owls cannot abide) that though thou feel in thine heart and art sure how that all is false that they say, yet couldst thou not solve their subtle riddles.
? Which thing only moved me to translate the new testament. Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: for else whatsoever truth is taught them, these enemies of all truth quench it again, partly with the smoke of their bottomless pit whereof thou readest Apocalypse ix.{9} that is, with apparent reasons of sophistry, and traditions of their own making, founded without ground of scripture, and partly in juggling with the text, expounding it in such a sense as is impossible to gather of the text, if thou see the process, order, and meaning thereof.
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Creature
Denotes the whole creation in #Ro 8:39 Col 1:15 Re 5:13 the whole human race in #Mr 16:15 Ro 8:19-22
Creation
"In the beginning" God created, i.e., called into being, all things out of nothing. This creative act on the part of God was absolutely free, and for infinitely wise reasons. The cause of all things exists only in the will of God. The one great end in the work of creation is the manifestation of the glory of the Creator #Col 1:16 Re 4:11 Ro 11:36 God's works, equally with God's word, are a revelation from him; and between the teachings of the one and those of the other, when rightly understood, there can be no contradiction. (EASTONS DICTIONARY)
Why should we know what words spoken were CREATION?
Ro 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
WT wisely said as I also have shown you the true meaning and even laid before the very eyes thereof:
Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text:
For they which in times past were wont to look on no more scripture than they found in their Duns or such like devilish doctrine,(like a Satan, Lucifer) 1Co 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
Finally in this they be all agreed, to drive you from the knowledge of the scripture, and that ye shall not have the text thereof in the mother tongue, and to keep the world still in darkness, ., ...thorow vain superstition and false doctrine (like creatures of the underworld and eternal torture rather than eternal death)
And with wresting the scripture unto their own purpose clean contrary unto the process, order and meaning of the text, and so delude them (2 Cor 4:4)in descanting upon it with allegories, and amaze them expounding it in many senses before the unlearned lay people (when it hath but one simple literal sense whose light the owls cannot abide) that though thou feel in thine heart and art sure how that all is false that they say, yet couldst thou not solve their subtle riddles
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creation (2937) that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Ps 33:13, 14; 90:8; 139:11,12
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creation:
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Ga 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ro 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
Moderator
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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For the wrath of God of heaven appeareth against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men which withhold the truth in unrighteousness, seeing that that, which may be known of God, is manifest among them. For God did shew it unto them.
-Romans 1:18-19
? Iudas the servant of Iesus Christ, the brother of Iames. To them which are called and sanctified in God the father, and preserved in Christ Iesus. Mercy unto you, and peace and love be multiplied.
? Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common health: it was needful for me to write unto you, to exhort you, that ye should continually labour in the faith, which was once given unto the saints. For there are certain craftily crept in, of which it was written aforetime unto such judgement. They are ungodly, and turn the grace of our Lord God unto wantonness, And deny God the only Lord, and our Lord Iesus Christ.
? My mind is therefore to put you in remembrance, for as much as ye once know this, how that the Lord (after that he had delivered the people out of Egypt) destroyed them which afterward believed not: The angels also, which kept not their first estate: but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day: even as Zodom, and Gomor, and the cities about them (which in like manner defiled themselves, with fornication, and followed strange flesh) are set forth for an example, and suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise these dreamers defile the flesh, despise rulers, and speak evil of them that are in authority.
? Yet Michael the archangel (when he strove against the devil, and disputed the body of Moses) durst not give railing sentence, but said: The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not. In those things which they know naturally (as beasts which are without reason) they corrupt themselves. Woe be unto them, for they have followed the way of Cain, and are spilt in the error of Balaam for lucre's sake, and are cast away in the treason of Core.
? These are spots which of your kindness feast together, without fear, feeding themselves. Clouds they are without water, carried about of winds: Trees rotten in autumn, unfruitfull, twice dead, and plucked up by the rootes. They are raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame. They are wandering stars, to whom is reserved the mist of darkness for ever.
? Enoch the seventh from Adam prophesied before of such saying. Behold, the Lord shall come with thousands of saints, to give judgement against all men, and to rebuke all that are ungodly among them, of all their ungodly deeds, which they have ungodly committed, and of all their cruel speakings, which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
? These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts, whose mouth's speak proud things. They have men in great reverence because of advantage. But ye beloved remember the words which were spoken before of the Apostles of our Lord Iesus Christ, how that they told you that there should be beguilers in the last time, which should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These are makers of sects, naturall, having no spirit.
? But ye dearly beloved, edify yourselves in your most wholy faith, praying in the wholy ghost, and keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Iesus Christ, unto eternal life. And have compassion on some, separating them: and other save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, and hate the filthy vesture of the flesh.
? Unto him that is able to keep you, that ye faule not, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with joy, that is to say, to God our saviour which only is wise, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, now and for ever Amen.
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
Banned!
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| JAdmin wrote: | For the wrath of God of heaven appeareth against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men which withhold the truth in unrighteousness, seeing that that, which may be known of God, is manifest among them. For God did shew it unto them.
-Romans 1:18-19
? Iudas the servant of Iesus Christ, the brother of Iames. To them which are called and sanctified in God the father, and preserved in Christ Iesus. Mercy unto you, and peace and love be multiplied.
? Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common health: it was needful for me to write unto you, to exhort you, that ye should continually labour in the faith, which was once given unto the saints. For there are certain craftily crept in, of which it was written aforetime unto such judgement. They are ungodly, and turn the grace of our Lord God unto wantonness, And deny God the only Lord, and our Lord Iesus Christ.
? My mind is therefore to put you in remembrance, for as much as ye once know this, how that the Lord (after that he had delivered the people out of Egypt) destroyed them which afterward believed not: The angels also, which kept not their first estate: but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day: even as Zodom, and Gomor, and the cities about them (which in like manner defiled themselves, with fornication, and followed strange flesh) are set forth for an example, and suffer the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise these dreamers defile the flesh, despise rulers, and speak evil of them that are in authority.
? Yet Michael the archangel (when he strove against the devil, and disputed the body of Moses) durst not give railing sentence, but said: The Lord rebuke thee. But these speak evil of those things which they know not. In those things which they know naturally (as beasts which are without reason) they corrupt themselves. Woe be unto them, for they have followed the way of Cain, and are spilt in the error of Balaam for lucre's sake, and are cast away in the treason of Core.
? These are spots which of your kindness feast together, without fear, feeding themselves. Clouds they are without water, carried about of winds: Trees rotten in autumn, unfruitfull, twice dead, and plucked up by the rootes. They are raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame. They are wandering stars, to whom is reserved the mist of darkness for ever.
? Enoch the seventh from Adam prophesied before of such saying. Behold, the Lord shall come with thousands of saints, to give judgement against all men, and to rebuke all that are ungodly among them, of all their ungodly deeds, which they have ungodly committed, and of all their cruel speakings, which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
? These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts, whose mouth's speak proud things. They have men in great reverence because of advantage. But ye beloved remember the words which were spoken before of the Apostles of our Lord Iesus Christ, how that they told you that there should be beguilers in the last time, which should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These are makers of sects, naturall, having no spirit.
? But ye dearly beloved, edify yourselves in your most wholy faith, praying in the wholy ghost, and keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Iesus Christ, unto eternal life. And have compassion on some, separating them: and other save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, and hate the filthy vesture of the flesh.
? Unto him that is able to keep you, that ye faule not, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with joy, that is to say, to God our saviour which only is wise, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, now and for ever Amen. |
Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you contrary to that ye have received, let him be a victim devoted for destruction. thorow Jesus Christ,
(WT) Eph 3:8 Unto me the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach among the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
3:9 and to give light top all men, that they might know what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God which made (2936)all things
{Not in the Originals} thorow Jesus Christ,
3:10 to the intent, that now unto the rulers and powers in heaven might be known by the congregation the manyfold wisdom of God
3:14For this cause I bow my knees unto the father
{Not in the Originals} of our Lord Jesus Christ,
3:15{Not in the Originals} which is father over all that is called father
In heaven and in earth, that he would grant you according to the riches of his glory,
(KJV)Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created (2936) all things {Not in the Originals}by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
14 ? For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father{Not in the Originals} of our Lord Jesus Christ,15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Codex Vaticanus (B),and( Codex Sinaiticus ),(Codicem Alexandrinum).
Eph 3:8 To me the less than the least of all holy ones, was given the favor this among The nations to announce good tidings ? the untraceable wealth of the Anointed,
3:9 and to enlighten all what the fellowship of the mystery of that being concealed from the ages in the God, in that the all things having created.
3:10 so that might be made known now to the governments and to the authorities in the heavenlies through the assembly, the greatly diversified wisdom of the God,
3:11 according to a setting before of the ages, which he formed In Anointed Jesus the Lord of us.
3:14 For this favor I bend the knees of me to the father.
3:15 from whom the whole family in the heavens and on earth is named,
Isa 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
Why should we know that the words spoken were CREATION?
Ro 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Gal 1:10 ? For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which is preached of me is not after man.
Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text:
Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
Moderator
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: Take Heed and Beware |
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Only because somebody says something as if it is a fact, doesn't mean that it's really a fact!
Yea, for ensample:
| Heman wrote: | (WT) Eph 3:8 Unto me the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach among the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
3:9 and to give light top all men, that they might know what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God which made (2936)all things
{Not in the Originals} thorow Jesus Christ,
3:10 to the intent, that now unto the rulers and powers in heaven might be known by the congregation the manyfold wisdom of God
3:14For this cause I bow my knees unto the father
{Not in the Originals} of our Lord Jesus Christ,
3:15{Not in the Originals} which is father over all that is called father
In heaven and in earth, that he would grant you according to the riches of his glory,
(KJV)Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created (2936) all things {Not in the Originals}by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
14 ? For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father{Not in the Originals} of our Lord Jesus Christ,15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, |
Even if it were "Not in the Originals"; do you deny it's verity?
(Ephesians 3:9 was already discussed thorowly in post: take heed & beware - be not deceived)
Moreover a statement such as "Not in the Originals" (implying the exact manuscripts as initially penned) is not honestly allowed because it is utterly frivolous; yea since nobody has such "originals" (other than the most High) to compare and call it as such. ESPecially manuscripts all of a sudden dug up and assumed to be anything better than where and whom it was found by.
Rather, on the right hand, manuscripts like the Old Latin Italic, Greek Byzantine 4th Century and Erasmus faithful compilation is backed up by the test of time faithfully passed from one generation to another.
| Psalms 100:5 | | For the LORD is gracious, his mercy is everlasting, and his truth endureth from generation to generation. |
----
| Heman wrote: | | Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you contrary to that ye have received, let him be a victim devoted for destruction. thorow Jesus Christ, |
What manuscript renders such a thing after the Galatians 1:9 verse!?
Now in that context or lack thereof it may be said that it's likely "Not in the Originals".
Notwithstanding, I would not deny it's verity when correctly perceived.
Ironic how the verse following says:
| Galatians 1:9-10 | | 9As I said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other thing unto you, than that ye have received, hold him accursed. 10Seek I now the favour of men, or of God? Other go I about to please men? If I studied to please men, I were not the servant of Christ. |
Even:
| Ephesians 3:8-21 | | 8Unto me the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach among the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to give light to all men, that they might know what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God which made all things thorow Jesus Christ, 10to the intent, that now unto the rulers and powers in heaven might be known by the congregation the manyfold wisdom of God, 11according to that eternal purpose, which he purposed in Christ Jesu our Lord, 12by whom we are bold to draw nigh in that trust, which we have by faith on him. 13Wherefore I desire, that ye faint not because of mine tribulations which I suffer for you: which is your praise. 14For this cause I bow my knees unto the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which is father over all that is called father In heaven and in earth, that he would grant you according to the riches of his glory, 16that ye may be strengthened with might by his spirit in the inner man, 17that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, that ye being rooted and grounded in love, 18might be able to comprehend with all saints, what is that breadth and length, depth and height: 19and to know what is the love of Christ, which love passeth knowledge: that ye might be fulfilled with all manner of fullness which cometh of God. 20Unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly, above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21be praise in the congregation by Jesus Christ, thorow out all generations from time to time. Amen. |
| Isaiah 43:7 | | Namely, all those that be called after my name: For them have I created, fashioned, and made for mine honour. |
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| heman wrote: | Why should we know that the words spoken were CREATION?
Ro 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. |
Please do not include me in the "we know".. because the verse before it says:
| Romans 1:18-19 | | 18For the wrath of God of heaven appeareth against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men which withhold the truth in unrighteousness, 19seeing that that, which may be known of God, is manifest among them. For God did shew it unto them. |
For thus saith the Lord:
| John 9:41 | | Jesus said unto them, if ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say we see, therefore your sin remaineth. |
All i know is:
| 1 Corinthians 3:16-23 | | 16Are ye not ware that ye are the temple of God, and how that the spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which temple are ye. 18Let no man deceive himself. If any man seem wise among you, let him be a fool in this world, that he may be wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: he compasseth the wise in their craftiness. 20And again, God knoweth the thoughts of the wise that they be vain. 21Therefore let no man rejoice in men. For all things are yours, 22whether it be Paul, other Apollo, either Cephas: whether it be the world, either life, either death, whether they be present things or things to come: all are yours, 23and ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's. |
Like the rest of the verses translated into the proper derived English:
| Ephesians 6:17-20 | | 17And take the helmet of health, and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, 18and pray always with all manner prayer and supplication: and that in the spirit: and watch thereunto with all instance and supplication for all saints, 19and for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to utter the secrets of the gospel, 20whereof I am a messenger in bonds, that therein I may speak freely, as it becometh me to speak. |
| Galatians 1:10-12 | | 10Seek I now the favour of men, or of God? Other go I about to please men? If I studied to please men, I were not the servant of Christ. 11I certify you brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me, was not after the manner of men, 12neither received I it of man, neither was I taught it: but received it by the revelation of Jesus Christ. |
Let's suppose the actual penned originals did not have a part, but somehow the Everlasting God the Lord in his sovereign providence alloweth it to be included l8r.. eitherway: Who are we to limit HIS WAYS!
| Isaiah 55:8-13 | | 8For thus sayeth the LORD: my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways, 9but as far as the heavens are higher than the earth, so far do my ways exceed yours, and my thoughts yours. 10And like as the rain and snow cometh down from heaven, and returneth not thither again, but watereth the earth, maketh it fruitful and green, that it may give corn and bread unto the sower: 11So the word also that cometh out of my mouth shall not turn again void unto me, but shall accomplish my will and prosper in the thing, whereto I sent it. 12And so shall ye go forth with joy, and be lead with peace. The mountains and hills shall sing with you for joy, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13For thorns, there shall grow Fir trees, and the Myrtle tree in the stead of briers. And this shall be done to the praise of the LORD, and for an everlasting token, that shall not be taken away. |
| WT wrote: | | Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: |
----
| Heman wrote: | | Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. |
| Genesis 1:1 | | In the beginning God created heaven and earth. |
| Code: | 1Pe 1:3 Blessed be God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which thorow his abundant mercy begat{according to his great mercy hath begotten} us again unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from death,{from the dead}
1Pe 1:4 to enjoy an inheritance immortal,{uncorruptible} and undefiled, and that putrifieth(MT: perisheth) not,{which never shall fade away} reserved in heaven for you
1Pe 1:5 which are kept by the power of God thorow faith, unto health, which health{salvation, which salvation} is prepared all ready to be shewed in the last time,
1Pe 1:6 in the which time ye shall rejoice, though now for a season (if need require) ye are in heaviness, thorow many fold temptations,
1Pe 1:7 that your faith once tried being much more precious than gold that perisheth (though it be tried with fire) might be found unto laud, glory, and honour, when Jesus Christ shall appear:{at the appearing of Jesus Christ:}
1Pe 1:8 whom ye have not seen and yet love him, in whom even now, though ye see him not, yet ye believe, and rejoice with joy ineffable,{unspeakable} and glorious:{unoutspeakable and glorious joy}
1Pe 1:9 receiving the end of your faith, the health{salvation} of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which health,{salvation} have the prophets enquired, and sought,{searched} which prophesied of the grace that should come unto you,
1Pe 1:11 searching when, or at what time the spirit of Christ which was in them should signify, which spirit testified before, the passions that should come unto Christ, and the glory that should follow after:
1Pe 1:12 unto which prophets it was declared, that not unto themselves, but unto us, they should minister the things which are now shewed unto you, of them which by{thorow} the holy ghost sent down from heaven, have preached unto you the things which the angels desire to behold. |
Put thou nothing therefore unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found as a liar. -Proverbs 30:6
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
Banned!
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Take Heed and Beware |
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| JAdmin wrote: | Only because somebody says something as if it is a fact, doesn't mean that it's really a fact!
Yea, for ensample:
| Heman wrote: | (WT) Eph 3:8 Unto me the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach among the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
3:9 and to give light top all men, that they might know what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God which made (2936)all things
{Not in the Originals} thorow Jesus Christ,
3:10 to the intent, that now unto the rulers and powers in heaven might be known by the congregation the manyfold wisdom of God
3:14For this cause I bow my knees unto the father
{Not in the Originals} of our Lord Jesus Christ,
3:15{Not in the Originals} which is father over all that is called father
In heaven and in earth, that he would grant you according to the riches of his glory,
(KJV)Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created (2936) all things {Not in the Originals}by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
14 ? For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father{Not in the Originals} of our Lord Jesus Christ,15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, |
Even if it were "Not in the Originals"; do you deny it's verity?
(Ephesians 3:9 was already discussed thorowly in post: take heed & beware - be not deceived)
Moreover a statement such as "Not in the Originals" (implying the exact manuscripts as initially penned) is not honestly allowed because it is utterly frivolous; yea since nobody has such "originals" (other than the most High) to compare and call it as such. ESPecially manuscripts all of a sudden dug up and assumed to be anything better than where and whom it was found by.
Rather, on the right hand, manuscripts like the Old Latin Italic, Greek Byzantine 4th Century and Erasmus faithful compilation is backed up by the test of time faithfully passed from one generation to another.
| Psalms 100:5 | | For the LORD is gracious, his mercy is everlasting, and his truth endureth from generation to generation. |
----
| Heman wrote: | | Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you contrary to that ye have received, let him be a victim devoted for destruction. thorow Jesus Christ, |
What manuscript renders such a thing after the Galatians 1:9 verse!?
Now in that context or lack thereof it may be said that it's likely "Not in the Originals".
Notwithstanding, I would not deny it's verity when correctly perceived.
Ironic how the verse following says:
| Galatians 1:9-10 | | 9As I said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other thing unto you, than that ye have received, hold him accursed. 10Seek I now the favour of men, or of God? Other go I about to please men? If I studied to please men, I were not the servant of Christ. |
Even:
| Ephesians 3:8-21 | | 8Unto me the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach among the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to give light to all men, that they might know what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God which made all things thorow Jesus Christ, 10to the intent, that now unto the rulers and powers in heaven might be known by the congregation the manyfold wisdom of God, 11according to that eternal purpose, which he purposed in Christ Jesu our Lord, 12by whom we are bold to draw nigh in that trust, which we have by faith on him. 13Wherefore I desire, that ye faint not because of mine tribulations which I suffer for you: which is your praise. 14For this cause I bow my knees unto the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which is father over all that is called father In heaven and in earth, that he would grant you according to the riches of his glory, 16that ye may be strengthened with might by his spirit in the inner man, 17that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, that ye being rooted and grounded in love, 18might be able to comprehend with all saints, what is that breadth and length, depth and height: 19and to know what is the love of Christ, which love passeth knowledge: that ye might be fulfilled with all manner of fullness which cometh of God. 20Unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly, above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21be praise in the congregation by Jesus Christ, thorow out all generations from time to time. Amen. |
| Isaiah 43:7 | | Namely, all those that be called after my name: For them have I created, fashioned, and made for mine honour. |
----
| heman wrote: | Why should we know that the words spoken were CREATION?
Ro 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. |
Please do not include me in the "we know".. because the verse before it says:
| Romans 1:18-19 | | 18For the wrath of God of heaven appeareth against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men which withhold the truth in unrighteousness, 19seeing that that, which may be known of God, is manifest among them. For God did shew it unto them. |
For thus saith the Lord:
| John 9:41 | | Jesus said unto them, if ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say we see, therefore your sin remaineth. |
All i know is:
| 1 Corinthians 3:16-23 | | 16Are ye not ware that ye are the temple of God, and how that the spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which temple are ye. 18Let no man deceive himself. If any man seem wise among you, let him be a fool in this world, that he may be wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: he compasseth the wise in their craftiness. 20And again, God knoweth the thoughts of the wise that they be vain. 21Therefore let no man rejoice in men. For all things are yours, 22whether it be Paul, other Apollo, either Cephas: whether it be the world, either life, either death, whether they be present things or things to come: all are yours, 23and ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's. |
Like the rest of the verses translated into the proper derived English:
| Ephesians 6:17-20 | | 17And take the helmet of health, and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, 18and pray always with all manner prayer and supplication: and that in the spirit: and watch thereunto with all instance and supplication for all saints, 19and for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to utter the secrets of the gospel, 20whereof I am a messenger in bonds, that therein I may speak freely, as it becometh me to speak. |
| Galatians 1:10-12 | | 10Seek I now the favour of men, or of God? Other go I about to please men? If I studied to please men, I were not the servant of Christ. 11I certify you brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me, was not after the manner of men, 12neither received I it of man, neither was I taught it: but received it by the revelation of Jesus Christ. |
Let's suppose the actual penned originals did not have a part, but somehow the Everlasting God the Lord in his sovereign providence alloweth it to be included l8r.. eitherway: Who are we to limit HIS WAYS!
| Isaiah 55:8-13 | | 8For thus sayeth the LORD: my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways, 9but as far as the heavens are higher than the earth, so far do my ways exceed yours, and my thoughts yours. 10And like as the rain and snow cometh down from heaven, and returneth not thither again, but watereth the earth, maketh it fruitful and green, that it may give corn and bread unto the sower: 11So the word also that cometh out of my mouth shall not turn again void unto me, but shall accomplish my will and prosper in the thing, whereto I sent it. 12And so shall ye go forth with joy, and be lead with peace. The mountains and hills shall sing with you for joy, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13For thorns, there shall grow Fir trees, and the Myrtle tree in the stead of briers. And this shall be done to the praise of the LORD, and for an everlasting token, that shall not be taken away. |
| WT wrote: | | Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: |
----
| Heman wrote: | | Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. |
| Genesis 1:1 | | In the beginning God created heaven and earth. |
| Code: | 1Pe 1:3 Blessed be God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which thorow his abundant mercy begat{according to his great mercy hath begotten} us again unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from death,{from the dead}
1Pe 1:4 to enjoy an inheritance immortal,{uncorruptible} and undefiled, and that putrifieth(MT: perisheth) not,{which never shall fade away} reserved in heaven for you
1Pe 1:5 which are kept by the power of God thorow faith, unto health, which health{salvation, which salvation} is prepared all ready to be shewed in the last time,
1Pe 1:6 in the which time ye shall rejoice, though now for a season (if need require) ye are in heaviness, thorow many fold temptations,
1Pe 1:7 that your faith once tried being much more precious than gold that perisheth (though it be tried with fire) might be found unto laud, glory, and honour, when Jesus Christ shall appear:{at the appearing of Jesus Christ:}
1Pe 1:8 whom ye have not seen and yet love him, in whom even now, though ye see him not, yet ye believe, and rejoice with joy ineffable,{unspeakable} and glorious:{unoutspeakable and glorious joy}
1Pe 1:9 receiving the end of your faith, the health{salvation} of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which health,{salvation} have the prophets enquired, and sought,{searched} which prophesied of the grace that should come unto you,
1Pe 1:11 searching when, or at what time the spirit of Christ which was in them should signify, which spirit testified before, the passions that should come unto Christ, and the glory that should follow after:
1Pe 1:12 unto which prophets it was declared, that not unto themselves, but unto us, they should minister the things which are now shewed unto you, of them which by{thorow} the holy ghost sent down from heaven, have preached unto you the things which the angels desire to behold. |
Put thou nothing therefore unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found as a liar. -Proverbs 30:6 |
Job 24:25 And if it be not so now, who will make me a liar, and make my speech nothing worth?
1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Not Jesus or anyone else.
Matt 13:(29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. (30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
All of God's saints should heed this warning to watch and pray that the field of our heart not be sown with tares by an adversary. God has bought us with a price and given us His Spirit, making us new creations in Him and heirs the inheritance and eternal life. He expects us to bear fruit in our corner of the field of this world in which He has sowed us.
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"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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heman
Banned!
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Take Heed and Beware |
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| heman wrote: | | JAdmin wrote: | Only because somebody says something as if it is a fact, doesn't mean that it's really a fact!
Yea, for ensample:
| Heman wrote: | (WT) Eph 3:8 Unto me the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach among the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
3:9 and to give light top all men, that they might know what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God which made (2936)all things
{Not in the Originals} thorow Jesus Christ,
3:10 to the intent, that now unto the rulers and powers in heaven might be known by the congregation the manyfold wisdom of God
3:14For this cause I bow my knees unto the father
{Not in the Originals} of our Lord Jesus Christ,
3:15{Not in the Originals} which is father over all that is called father
In heaven and in earth, that he would grant you according to the riches of his glory,
(KJV)Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created (2936) all things {Not in the Originals}by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
14 ? For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father{Not in the Originals} of our Lord Jesus Christ,15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, |
Even if it were "Not in the Originals"; do you deny it's verity?
(Ephesians 3:9 was already discussed thorowly in post: take heed & beware - be not deceived)
Moreover a statement such as "Not in the Originals" (implying the exact manuscripts as initially penned) is not honestly allowed because it is utterly frivolous; yea since nobody has such "originals" (other than the most High) to compare and call it as such. ESPecially manuscripts all of a sudden dug up and assumed to be anything better than where and whom it was found by.
Rather, on the right hand, manuscripts like the Old Latin Italic, Greek Byzantine 4th Century and Erasmus faithful compilation is backed up by the test of time faithfully passed from one generation to another.
| Psalms 100:5 | | For the LORD is gracious, his mercy is everlasting, and his truth endureth from generation to generation. |
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| Heman wrote: | | Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you contrary to that ye have received, let him be a victim devoted for destruction. thorow Jesus Christ, |
What manuscript renders such a thing after the Galatians 1:9 verse!?
Now in that context or lack thereof it may be said that it's likely "Not in the Originals".
Notwithstanding, I would not deny it's verity when correctly perceived.
Ironic how the verse following says:
| Galatians 1:9-10 | | 9As I said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other thing unto you, than that ye have received, hold him accursed. 10Seek I now the favour of men, or of God? Other go I about to please men? If I studied to please men, I were not the servant of Christ. |
Even:
| Ephesians 3:8-21 | | 8Unto me the least of all saints is this grace given, that I should preach among the gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to give light to all men, that they might know what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God which made all things thorow Jesus Christ, 10to the intent, that now unto the rulers and powers in heaven might be known by the congregation the manyfold wisdom of God, 11according to that eternal purpose, which he purposed in Christ Jesu our Lord, 12by whom we are bold to draw nigh in that trust, which we have by faith on him. 13Wherefore I desire, that ye faint not because of mine tribulations which I suffer for you: which is your praise. 14For this cause I bow my knees unto the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15which is father over all that is called father In heaven and in earth, that he would grant you according to the riches of his glory, 16that ye may be strengthened with might by his spirit in the inner man, 17that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, that ye being rooted and grounded in love, 18might be able to comprehend with all saints, what is that breadth and length, depth and height: 19and to know what is the love of Christ, which love passeth knowledge: that ye might be fulfilled with all manner of fullness which cometh of God. 20Unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly, above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21be praise in the congregation by Jesus Christ, thorow out all generations from time to time. Amen. |
| Isaiah 43:7 | | Namely, all those that be called after my name: For them have I created, fashioned, and made for mine honour. |
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| heman wrote: | Why should we know that the words spoken were CREATION?
Ro 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. |
Please do not include me in the "we know".. because the verse before it says:
| Romans 1:18-19 | | 18For the wrath of God of heaven appeareth against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men which withhold the truth in unrighteousness, 19seeing that that, which may be known of God, is manifest among them. For God did shew it unto them. |
For thus saith the Lord:
| John 9:41 | | Jesus said unto them, if ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say we see, therefore your sin remaineth. |
All i know is:
| 1 Corinthians 3:16-23 | | 16Are ye not ware that ye are the temple of God, and how that the spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which temple are ye. 18Let no man deceive himself. If any man seem wise among you, let him be a fool in this world, that he may be wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: he compasseth the wise in their craftiness. 20And again, God knoweth the thoughts of the wise that they be vain. 21Therefore let no man rejoice in men. For all things are yours, 22whether it be Paul, other Apollo, either Cephas: whether it be the world, either life, either death, whether they be present things or things to come: all are yours, 23and ye are Christ's, and Christ is God's. |
Like the rest of the verses translated into the proper derived English:
| Ephesians 6:17-20 | | 17And take the helmet of health, and the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, 18and pray always with all manner prayer and supplication: and that in the spirit: and watch thereunto with all instance and supplication for all saints, 19and for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to utter the secrets of the gospel, 20whereof I am a messenger in bonds, that therein I may speak freely, as it becometh me to speak. |
| Galatians 1:10-12 | | 10Seek I now the favour of men, or of God? Other go I about to please men? If I studied to please men, I were not the servant of Christ. 11I certify you brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me, was not after the manner of men, 12neither received I it of man, neither was I taught it: but received it by the revelation of Jesus Christ. |
Let's suppose the actual penned originals did not have a part, but somehow the Everlasting God the Lord in his sovereign providence alloweth it to be included l8r.. eitherway: Who are we to limit HIS WAYS!
| Isaiah 55:8-13 | | 8For thus sayeth the LORD: my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways, 9but as far as the heavens are higher than the earth, so far do my ways exceed yours, and my thoughts yours. 10And like as the rain and snow cometh down from heaven, and returneth not thither again, but watereth the earth, maketh it fruitful and green, that it may give corn and bread unto the sower: 11So the word also that cometh out of my mouth shall not turn again void unto me, but shall accomplish my will and prosper in the thing, whereto I sent it. 12And so shall ye go forth with joy, and be lead with peace. The mountains and hills shall sing with you for joy, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13For thorns, there shall grow Fir trees, and the Myrtle tree in the stead of briers. And this shall be done to the praise of the LORD, and for an everlasting token, that shall not be taken away. |
| WT wrote: | | Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: |
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| Heman wrote: | | Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. |
| Genesis 1:1 | | In the beginning God created heaven and earth. |
| Code: | 1Pe 1:3 Blessed be God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which thorow his abundant mercy begat{according to his great mercy hath begotten} us again unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from death,{from the dead}
1Pe 1:4 to enjoy an inheritance immortal,{uncorruptible} and undefiled, and that putrifieth(MT: perisheth) not,{which never shall fade away} reserved in heaven for you
1Pe 1:5 which are kept by the power of God thorow faith, unto health, which health{salvation, which salvation} is prepared all ready to be shewed in the last time,
1Pe 1:6 in the which time ye shall rejoice, though now for a season (if need require) ye are in heaviness, thorow many fold temptations,
1Pe 1:7 that your faith once tried being much more precious than gold that perisheth (though it be tried with fire) might be found unto laud, glory, and honour, when Jesus Christ shall appear:{at the appearing of Jesus Christ:}
1Pe 1:8 whom ye have not seen and yet love him, in whom even now, though ye see him not, yet ye believe, and rejoice with joy ineffable,{unspeakable} and glorious:{unoutspeakable and glorious joy}
1Pe 1:9 receiving the end of your faith, the health{salvation} of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Of which health,{salvation} have the prophets enquired, and sought,{searched} which prophesied of the grace that should come unto you,
1Pe 1:11 searching when, or at what time the spirit of Christ which was in them should signify, which spirit testified before, the passions that should come unto Christ, and the glory that should follow after:
1Pe 1:12 unto which prophets it was declared, that not unto themselves, but unto us, they should minister the things which are now shewed unto you, of them which by{thorow} the holy ghost sent down from heaven, have preached unto you the things which the angels desire to behold. |
Put thou nothing therefore unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found as a liar. -Proverbs 30:6 |
Job 24:25 And if it be not so now, who will make me a liar, and make my speech nothing worth?
1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Not Jesus or anyone else.
Matt 13:(29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. (30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
All of God's saints should heed this warning to watch and pray that the field of our heart not be sown with tares by an adversary. God has bought us with a price and given us His Spirit, making us new creations in Him and heirs the inheritance and eternal life. He expects us to bear fruit in our corner of the field of this world in which He has sowed us. |
I guess Tyndale missed this one?
Mat 24:36. Add "nor the Son" after "heaven". L T WH N NA
SEE (www.bible-researcher.com) ( www.zhubert.com/) (www.biblegateway.com/)
London, Brit. Libr., Add. 43725 300 A.D. ? 399 B.C. SEE (www.stoa.org/bible)
W TYNDALE Matt 24:36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no not the angels of heaven, but my father only.
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
Moderator
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: Re: Take Heed and Beware |
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| Matthew 10:4 | | Simon of Chane, and Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him. |
Friend, as the thoughts of Satan were unknown to Simon of Chane, and Judas Iscariot.. so are they unknown unto you according to your demonstration thereof. But I perceive that one of them repented.
| 2 Corinthians 2:9-11 | | 9For this cause verily did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye should be obedient in all things. 10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also. And verily if I forgive any thing, to whom I forgave it for your sakes forgave I it, in the room of Christ, 11lest Satan should prevent us. For his thoughts are not unknown unto us. |
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| heman wrote: | | Job 24:25 And if it be not so now, who will make me a liar, and make my speech nothing worth? |
That's exactly how i feal when understood as a whole:
| Job 24:18-25 | | 18The ungodly is very swift: O that his portion also upon earth were swifter than the running water, which suffereth not the shipman to behold the fair and pleasant vineyards. 19O that they (for the wickedness which they have done) were drawn to the hell, sooner than snow melteth at the heat. 20O that all compassion upon them were forgotten: that their dainties were worms, that they were clean put out of remembrance, and utterly hewn down like an unfruitful tree. 21For they maintain the barren, and make them that they can not bear, and unto widows they do no good. 22They pluck down the mighty with their power, and when they themselves are gotten up, they are never without fear, as long as they live. 23And though they might be safe, yet they will not receive it, for their eyes look upon their own ways. 24They are exalted for a little, but shortly are they gone, brought to extreme poverty, and taken out of the way: yea and utterly plucked off, as the ears of corn. 25Is it not so? Who will then reprove me as a liar, and say that my words are nothing worth. |
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| Heman wrote: | 1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Not Jesus or anyone else. |
If that's not rejecting the son, i don't know what is.
| Proverbs 30:4 | | Who hath climbed up into heaven? Who hath come down from thence? Who hath holden the wind fast in his hand? Who hath comprehended the waters in a garment? Who hath set all the ends of the world? What is his name, or his son's name? Canst thou tell? |
Why did God create heaven and earth to begin with?
If taken the passage for it's knowledge said in Christ, it'll make perfect sense:
| Ephesians 1:3-8 | | 3Blessed be God the father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which hath blessed us with all manner of spiritual blessings in heavenly things by Christ, 4according as he had chosen us in him thorow love, before the foundation of the world was laid, that we should be saints, and without blame in his sight. 5And ordained us before unto him self that we should be chosen to heirs thorow Jesus Christ, according to the pleasure of his will, 6to the praise of his glorious grace, where with he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7By whom we have redemption thorow his blood, that is to say the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace, 8which grace he shed on us abundantly in all wisdom, and prudency. |
| Colossians 1:13-20 | | 13Which hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear son, 14in whom we have redemption thorow his blood, that is to say, forgiveness of sins, 15which is the image of the invisible God, first begotten before all creatures: 16for by him were all things created, things that are in heaven, and things that are in earth: things visible, and things invisible: whether they be majesty or lordship, either rule or power. 17All things are created by him, and in him, and he is before all things, and in him all things have their being. 18And he is the head of the body, that is to wit of the congregation, he is the beginning and first begotten of the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the father that in him should all fullness dwell, 20and by him to reconcile all things unto himself, and to set at peace by him thorow the blood of his cross both things in heaven and things in earth. |
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| heman wrote: | | Matt 13:(29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. (30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. |
So be it!
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| Heman wrote: |
All of God's saints should heed this warning to watch and pray that the field of our heart not be sown with tares by an adversary. God has bought us with a price and given us His Spirit, making us new creations in Him and heirs the inheritance and eternal life. He expects us to bear fruit in our corner of the field of this world in which He has sowed us. |
Was just thinking about that this evening..
but why change from the post's point flow at hand into a saint's exhortation?
Notwithstanding..
| John 9:4 | | I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day. The night cometh, when no man can work. |
Even if I may have as many fleshy tares as KING DAVID, or even ALEXANDER THE GREAT.. that did not stop their faith and neither will that stop my faith in Christ.
| Matthew 12:29-31 | | 29Either how can a man enter into a mighty man's house, and violently take away his goods, except he first bind the strong man, and then spoil his house? 30He that is not with me, is against me: And he that gathereth not with me, scattereth abroad. 31Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but the blasphemy against the holy ghost, shall not be forgiven unto men. |
| 1 John 4:4 | | Little children, ye are of God, and have overcome them: for greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. |
| John 8:7 | | And while they continued asking him, he lifted himself up; And said unto them: let him that is among you without sin, cast the first stone at her. |
| 1 John 1:10 | | If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. |
YEA WITHOUT CHRIST WE ARE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
All things are lawful unto me: but all things are not profitable. I may do all things: but I will be brought under no man's power. -1Co 6:12
This world rejects it's true rulers, and makes a mockery out of them in religion, entertainment, scholarship, or what have you..
Yet Job patiently well said: | Job 19:25-29 | | 25For I am sure, that my redeemer liveth, and that I shall rise out of the earth in the latter day: 26that I shall be clothed again with this skin, and see God in my flesh. 27Yea I my self shall behold him, not with other but with these same eyes. My reins are consumed within me, 28when ye say: Why do not we persecute him? We have found an occasion against him. 29But beware of the sword, for the sword will be avenged of wickedness, and be sure, that there is a judgement. |
| Matthew 21:28-31 | | 28What say ye to this? A certain man had two sons, and came to the elder saying: go and work today in my vineyard. 29He answered and said, I will not: but afterward repented and went. 30Then came he to the second, and said like wise, and he answered and said: I will sir: yet went he not. 31Whether of these two fulfilled their father's will? And they said unto him: The first. Jesus said unto them: Verily I say unto you, that the publicans and the harlots shall come into the kingdom of God before you. |
| 2 Corinthians 13:5-7 | | 5Prove yourselves whether ye are in the faith or not. Examine your own selves: know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you? except ye be castaways. 6I trust that ye shall know that we are not castaways. 7I desire before God that ye do none evil, not that we should seem commendable: but that ye should do, that which is honest: and let us be counted as lewd persons. |
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| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
Last edited by JAdmin on Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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