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JAdmin
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 Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: The Plain Truth |
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| Heman wrote: |
Here is the actual ?word for word? Greek to English translation with the explanation being translated below this one.
?Hebrews 1:3
Who being a radiance of the glory and the impression of the foundation (5287) of him manifestly (5320) and the things all by the word of the power of him a cleansing (2512) of the sins have made sat down...
Which being translated reads: ?Who being a radiance of the glory and impression of him manifestly of the foundation and all things by the word of the power of him a cleansing of sins has made sat down?? |
Ask an English teacher if that makes any sense.
Yea, if that's English i must be Greek.
That translation makes no sense taking the whole passage part into account:
| Hebrews 1:1-4 | | 1God in time past diversely and many ways, spake unto the fathers by prophets: 2but in these last days he hath spoken unto us by his son, whom he hath made heir of all things: by whom also he made the world. 3Which son being the brightness of his glory, and very image of his substance, bearing up all things with the word of his power, hath in his own person purged our sins, and is sitten on the right hand of the majesty on high, 4and is more excellent than the angels, inasmuch as he hath by inheritance obtained an excellenter name then have they. |
The plain truth about all of this is well exhorted at:
| 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 | | 1We beseech you brethren by the coming of our Lord Jesu Christ, and in that we shall assemble unto him, 2that ye be not suddenly moved from your mind, and be not troubled, neither by spirit, neither by words, nor yet by letter, which should seem to come from us, as though the day of Christ were at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means, for the Lord cometh not, except there come a departing first, and that that sinful man be opened, the son of perdition 4which is an adversary, and is exalted above all that is called god, or that is worshipped: so that he shall sit in the temple of god, and shew himself as god. 5Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth: even that he might be uttered at his time. 7For already the mystery of iniquity worketh. Only he that holdeth, let him now hold, until it be taken out of the way, 8and then shall that wicked be uttered, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the appearance of his coming, 9even him whose coming is by the working of Satan, with all lying power, signs, and wonders: 10and in all deceivableness of unrighteousness, among them that perish: because they received not the love of the truth, that they might have been saved. 11And therefore God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe lies: 12that all they might be damned which believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. |
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| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
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| Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: The Plain Truth |
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| JAdmin wrote: | | Heman wrote: |
Here is the actual ?word for word? Greek to English translation with the explanation being translated below this one.
?Hebrews 1:3
Who being a radiance of the glory and the impression of the foundation (5287) of him manifestly (5320) and the things all by the word of the power of him a cleansing (2512) of the sins have made sat down...
Which being translated reads: ?Who being a radiance of the glory and impression of him manifestly of the foundation and all things by the word of the power of him a cleansing of sins has made sat down?? |
Ask an English teacher if that makes any sense.
Yea, if that's English i must be Greek.
That translation makes no sense taking the whole passage part into account:
| Hebrews 1:1-4 | | 1God in time past diversely and many ways, spake unto the fathers by prophets: 2but in these last days he hath spoken unto us by his son, whom he hath made heir of all things: by whom also he made the world. 3Which son being the brightness of his glory, and very image of his substance, bearing up all things with the word of his power, hath in his own person purged our sins, and is sitten on the right hand of the majesty on high, 4and is more excellent than the angels, inasmuch as he hath by inheritance obtained an excellenter name then have they. |
The plain truth about all of this is well exhorted at:
| 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 | | 1We beseech you brethren by the coming of our Lord Jesu Christ, and in that we shall assemble unto him, 2that ye be not suddenly moved from your mind, and be not troubled, neither by spirit, neither by words, nor yet by letter, which should seem to come from us, as though the day of Christ were at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means, for the Lord cometh not, except there come a departing first, and that that sinful man be opened, the son of perdition 4which is an adversary, and is exalted above all that is called god, or that is worshipped: so that he shall sit in the temple of god, and shew himself as god. 5Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth: even that he might be uttered at his time. 7For already the mystery of iniquity worketh. Only he that holdeth, let him now hold, until it be taken out of the way, 8and then shall that wicked be uttered, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the appearance of his coming, 9even him whose coming is by the working of Satan, with all lying power, signs, and wonders: 10and in all deceivableness of unrighteousness, among them that perish: because they received not the love of the truth, that they might have been saved. 11And therefore God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe lies: 12that all they might be damned which believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. |
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Professor Hort says from the middle of the 4th century, a third type, called Italic from its more restricted range, is found. It is represented by Codex Brixianus (f.) of the 6th century, now at Brescia, and Codex Monacensis (q) of the 7th century, at Munich.
Recent investigation tends to show that we must be careful how we use Augustine as an Old Latin authority, and that the Itala may be, not a pre-Vulgate text, but rather Jerome's Vulgate (Jerome's Latin Bible, 390-405 A.D.) This, however, is still uncertain; the fact remains that as far as the Gospels are concerned, f. and q represent the type of text most used by Jerome.
It is interesting, also, to note that when Jerome revised, or even retranslated from the Septuagint, Tobit and Judith of the Apocrypha, the greater number of these books, the Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, 1 and 2 Maccabees, and Baruch were left unrevised, and were simply added to the Vulgate (Jerome's Latin Bible, 390-405 A.D.) from the Old Latin version.
These Old Latin translations going back in their earliest forms to nearly the middle of the 2nd century are very early witnesses to the Greek text from which they were made. They are the more valuable inasmuch as they are manifestly very literal translations. Our great uncial manuscripts also reaching back to the 2nd century whose period is definitely known, enables us to judge of the type of Greek text then and there in use. (Paprus 46, 66 75)
especially when they are confirmed by Codex Vaticanus and other manuscripts of better quality. Sinaiticus is also regarded more highly as a good witness in the case of substitutions and additions. The scribe of Sinaiticus was not given to making capricious substitutions and additions.
Other scribes were guilty of this fault, as may be seen from Codex Claromontanus, for instance, which is another very old manuscript. And so even the oldest manuscripts are not followed blindly, but intelligently.
Regarding Vaticanus: it is much better than Sinaiticus, and generally worthy of confidence. But even it is not used uncritically; its readings are adopted when they are confirmed by a variety of early witnesses, such as the versions, Fathers, and Papyrus 46.
Even Papyrus 46, from a.d. 200, is not used uncritically.
It is important to recognize the need for a diversity of witnesses from different regions. Critics aim to recover the readings of Catholic Antiquity, and guard against regionalisms.
It is often asserted by Majority text advocates that the modern critical texts are distinctively Egyptian, that they rely entirely upon manuscripts recovered from Egypt. This is simply untrue. The Greek copies used by the critical editors are indeed mostly from Egypt, but these are also compared with quotations and early versions from all quarters of the ancient world.
THE WORDS ?δι εαυτου? are not found in ANY manuscripts earlier than 4th Century and reflects the "uncial MSS"!
Mark 1:45; Jn 7:10; Acts 10:3 reflect the translation of Heb 1:3:
φανερων (5320) is correct and is so noted fuit qui restitueret αν. The original spelling is just like the Vaticanus B and reflects the translation of ?manifestly? as used in the above Mk 1:45; Jn 7:10; Ac 10:3.
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"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Act 13:5 And when they were come to Solamine, they shewed the word of God in the synagogues, unto{of} the jews. And they had John to their minister.
Act 13:6 When they had gone over all{thorowout} the Isle unto the city of Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet which was a jew,
Act 13:7 named Barjesu,{Bariesu} which was with the ruler of the country one Sergius Paulus a prudent man.<man of understanding> The same ruler called unto him Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
Act 13:8 [But] The sorcerer Elemas (for so was his name by interpretation) withstood{stood} them, and sought to turn away the ruler from the faith.
Act 13:9 Then Saul which also is called Paul being full of the holy ghost, set his eyes on him, and said:
Act 13:10 O full of all subtlety<futility> and deceitfulness [and] the child of the devil, and the enemy of all righteousness thou ceasest not to pervert the straight ways of the Lord.
Act 13:11 And now behold the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind and not see the sun for a season. And immediately{there} fell on him a mist and a darkness; And he went about seeking, them that should lead him by the hand.
Act 13:12 Then the ruler when he saw what had happened, believed, and wondered at the doctrine of the Lord.
| Code: | | Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns? Or figs of briars?{thistles?} |
| Psalms 4:5 | | Offer the sacrifice of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD. |
| Matthew 5:6 | | Blessed are they which hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they shall be filled. |
| Quote: | | Mat 5:20 For I say unto you except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, ye cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. |
| Matthew 6:33 | | But rather seek ye first the kingdom of heaven, and the righteousness thereof, and all these things shall be ministered unto you. |
| Matthew 21:32-44 | | 32For John came unto you, in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not. But the publicans and the whores believed him. But ye (though ye saw it) yet were not moved with repentance, that ye might afterward have believed him. 33Hearken another similitude. There was a certain householder, which set a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and made a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a strange country. 34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, to receive the fruits of it, 35and the husbandmen caught his servants, and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36Again he sent other servants more than the first, and they served them likewise. 37But last of all, he sent unto them his own son, saying: they will fear my son. 38 When the husbandmen saw his son, they said among them selves: This is the heir, come on let us kill him, and let us take his inheritance, to our selves. 39And they caught him and thrust him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40When the lord of the vineyard cometh: what will he do with those husbandmen? 41They said unto him: he will evil destroy those evil persons, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall deliver him his fruit at times convenient. 42Jesus said unto them: did ye never read in the scriptures? The same stone which the builders refused, is set in the principal part of the corner: this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes. 43Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to the Gentiles which shall bring forth the fruits of it. 44And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall be alto broken. And whosoever this stone shall fall upon, he shall grind him to powder. |
| John 7:16-18 | | 16Jesus answered them, and said: My doctrine is not mine: but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God: or whether I spake of myself. 18He that speaketh of himself, seeketh his own praise. But he that seeketh his praise that sent him, he is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. |
| Quote: | 2Ti 2:10 Herefore I suffer all things, for the elects' sakes, that they might also obtain that health<salvation> which is in Christ Jesu, with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:11 It is a true saying: If we be dead with him, we also shall live with him;
2Ti 2:12 If we be patient, we shall also reign with him; If we deny him, he also shall deny us;
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet abideth he faithful; He cannot deny himself.
2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, and testify before the Lord, that they strive not about words, which is to no profit, but to pervert the hearers. |
Master William Tyndale well said in his prologue to the first English Pentateuch translated from the Hebrew:
| Quote: | When I had translated the new testament, I added a pistel unto the latter end, in which I desired them that were learned to amend if ought were found amiss. But our malicious and wily hypocrites which are so stubborn and hard hearted in their wicked abominations that it is not possible for them to amend any thing at all (as we see by daily experience, when both their livings and doings are rebuked with the truth) say, some of them that it is impossible to translate the scripture into English, some that it is not lawful for the lay people to have it in their mother tongue, some, that it would make them all heretics, as it would no doubt from many things which they of long time have falsely taught, and that is the whole cause wherefore they forbid it, though they other cloaks pretend. And some or rather every one, say that it would make them rise against the king, whom they themselves (unto their damnation) never yet obeyed. And lest the temporal rulers should see their falsehood, if the scripture came to light, causeth them so to lie. And as for my translation in which they affirm unto the lay people (as I have heard say) to be I wot not how many thousand heresies, so that it cannot be mended or correct, they have yet taken so great pain to examine it, and to compare it unto that they would fain have it and to their own imaginations and juggling terms, and to have somewhat to rail at, and under that cloak to blaspheme the truth, that they might with as little labour (as I suppose) have translated the most part of the bible. For they which in times past were wont to look on no more scripture than they found in their Duns or such like devilish doctrine, have yet now so narrowly looked on my translation, that there is not so much as one i therein if it lack a tittle over his head, but they have noted it, and number it unto the ignorant people for an heresy. Finally in this they be all agreed, to drive you from the knowledge of the scripture, and that ye shall not have the text thereof in the mother tongue, and to keep the world still in darkness, to the intent they might sit in the consciences of the people, thorow vain superstition and false doctrine, to satisfy their filthy lusts, their proud ambition, and unsatiable covetousness, and to exalt their own honour above king and emperor, yea and above God himself.
A thousand books had they lever to be put forth against their abominable doings and doctrine, than that the scripture should come to light. For as long as they may keep that down, they will so darken the right way with the mist of their sophistry, and so tangle them that either rebuke or despise their abominations with arguments of philosophy and with wordily {worldly} similitudes and apparent reasons of natural wisdom. And with wresting the scripture unto their own purpose clean contrary unto the process, order and meaning of the text, and so delude them in descanting upon it with allegories, and amaze them expounding it in many senses before the unlearned lay people (when it hath but one simple literal sense whose light the owls cannot abide) that though thou feel in thine heart and art sure how that all is false that they say, yet couldst thou not solve their subtle riddles.
Which thing only moved me to translate the new testament. Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: for else whatsoever truth is taught them, these enemies of all truth quench it again, partly with the smoke of their bottomless pit whereof thou readest Apocalypse ix.{9} that is, with apparent reasons of sophistry, and traditions of their own making, founded without ground of scripture, and partly in juggling with the text, expounding it in such a sense as is impossible to gather of the text, if thou see the process, order, and meaning thereof.
And even in the bishop of London's house I intended to have done it. For when I was so turmoiled in the country where I was that I could no longer there dwell (the process whereof were too long here to rehearse) I this wise thought in myself, this I suffer because the priests of the country be unlearned, as God it knoweth there are a full ignorant sort which have seen no more Latin than that they read in their portesses and missals which yet many of them can scarcely read, (except it be Albertus de secretis mulierum in which yet, though they be never so sorrily learned, they pore day and night, and make notes therein and all to teach the midwives as they say, and Linwode a book of constitutions to gather tithes, mortuaries, offerings, customs, and other pillage, which they call, not theirs, but God's part and the duty of holy church, to discharge their consciences withall: for they are bound that they shall not diminish, but increase all things unto the uttermost of their powers) and therefore (because they are thus unlearned, thought I) when they come together to the ale house, which is their preaching place, they affirm that my sayings are heresy. And besides that they add to of their own heads which I never spake, as the manner is to prolong the tale to short the time withall, and accused me secretly to the chancellor and other the bishop's officers. And indeed, when I came before the chancellor, he threatened me grievously, and reviled me, and rated me as though I had been a dog, and laid to my charge whereof there could be none accuser brought forth, (as their manner is not to bring forth the accuser) and yet all the priests of the country were the same day there. As I this thought the bishop of London came to my remembrance whom Erasmus (whose tongue maketh of little gnats great elephants and lifteth up above the stars whosoever giveth him a little exhibition) praiseth exceedingly among other in his annotations on the new testament for his great learning. Then thought I, if I might come to this man's service, I were happy. And so I gat me to London, and, thorow the acquaintance of my master came to sir Harry Gilford, the king's grace's controller, and bought him an oration of Isocrates which I had translated out of Greek into English, and desired him to speak unto my lord of London for me, which he also did as he shewed me, and willed me to write a pistel to my lord, and to go to him myself which I also did, and delivered my pistel to a servant of his own, one William Hebylthwaite, a man of mine old acquaintance. But God which knoweth what is within hypocrites, saw that I was beguiled, and that that counsel was not the next way unto my purpose. And therefore he gat me no favour in my lord's sight.
Whereupon my lord answered me, his house was full, he had more than he could well find, and advised me to seek in London, where he said I could not lack a service. And so in London I abode almost a year, and marked the course of the world, and heard our praters, I would say our preachers how they boasted themselves and their high authority, and beheld the pomp of our prelates, and how busied they were as they yet are, to set peace and unity in the world (though it be not possible for them that walk in darkness to continue long in peace, for they cannot but either stumble or dash themselves at one thing or another that shall clean unquiet all together) and saw things whereof I defer to speak at this time and understood at the last not only that there was no room in my lord of London's palace to translate the new testament, but also that there was no place to do it in all England, as experience doth now openly declare.
Under what manner therefore should I now submit this book to be corrected and amended of them which can suffer nothing to be well? Or what protestation should I make in such a matter unto our prelates those stubborn Nimrods which so mightily fight against God, and resist his holy spirit, enforcing with all craft and subtlety to quench the light of the everlasting testament, promises, and appointment made between God and us: and heaping the fierce wrath of God upon all princes and rulers, mocking them with false feigned names of hypocrisy, and serving their lusts at all points, and dispensing with them even of the very laws of God, of which Christ himself testifieth, Matt. v.{5} that not so much as one tittle thereof may perish, or be broken. And of which the prophet saith, Psalm cxviij.{118} Thou hast commanded thy laws to be kept meod, that is in Hebrew exceedingly, with all diligence, might and power and have made them so mad with their juggling charms and crafty persuasions that they think it a full satisfaction for all their wicked lying, to torment such as tell them truth, and to burn the word of their souls' health, and slay whosoever believe thereon.
Notwitstonding yet I submit this book and all other that I have either made or translated, or shall in time to come, (if it be God's will that I shall further labour in his harvest) unto all them that submit themselves unto the word of God, to be corrected of them, yea and moreover to be disallowed and also burnt, if it seem worthy when they have examined it with the Hebrew, so that they first put forth of their own translating another that is more correct. |
2Co 5:20 Now then are we messengers in the room of Christ: even as though God did beseech you thorow us:{exhorted by us} So pray we you<We beseek you now therefore> in Christ's stead, that ye be at one with God:
2Co 5:21 for he hath made him to be sin for us, which knew no sin, that we by his means should be that righteousness which before God is allowed.{aloved}
1Co 1:26 Brethren look on your calling how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many of high degree are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world, to confound the wise. And [God] hath chosen the weak things of the world, to confound things which are mighty.
1Co 1:28 And vile things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen yea and things of no reputation, for to bring to nought things of reputation,
1Co 1:29 that no flesh should rejoice in his presence.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye made safe <saved> thorow faith, and that not of your selves: For it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 and cometh not of works, lest any man should boast himself.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesu unto good works, unto the which God ordained us before, that we should walk in them.
| Jeremiah 13:7-27 | | 7Then went I to Euphrates, and digged up, and took the breech from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the breech was corrupt, so that it was profitable for nothing. 8Then said the LORD unto me: 9Thus sayeth the LORD: Even so will I corrupt the pride of Judah, and the high mind of Jerusalem. 10This people is a wicked people, they will not hear my word, they follow the wicked imaginations of their own heart, and hang upon strange gods, them have they served and worshiped: and therefore they shall be as this breech, that serveth for nothing. 11For as straightly as a breech lieth upon a man's loins, so straightly did I bind the whole house of Israel, and the whole house of Juda unto me, sayeth the LORD: that they might be my people: that they might have a glorious name: that they might be in honour: but they would not obey me. 12Therefore lay this riddle before them, and say: Thus sayeth the LORD God of Israel: Every pot shall be filled with wine. And they shall say: thinkest thou we know not, that every pot shall be filled with wine? 13Then shalt thou say unto them: Thus sayeth the LORD: Behold, I shall fill all the inhabiters of this land with drunkenness, the kings that sit upon David's stool, the Priests and Prophets, with all that dwell at Jerusalem. 14And I will shoot them one against another, yea the fathers against the sons, sayeth the LORD. I will not pardon them, I will not spare them, nor have pity upon them: but destroy them. 15Be obedient, give ear, take no disdain at it, for it is the LORD himself that speaketh. 16Honour the LORD your God herein, or he take his light from you, and or ever your feet stumble in darkness at the hill: lest when ye look for the light, he turn it into the shadow and darkness of death. 17But if ye will not hear me, that give you secret warning, I will mourn from my whole heart for your stubbornness. Piteously will I weep, and the tears shall gush out of mine eyes. For the LORD's flock shall be carried away captive. 18Tell the king and the rulers: Humble yourselves, set you down low, for the crown of your glory shall fall from your head. 19The cities toward the south shall be shut up, and no man shall open them. All Juda shall be carried away captive, so that none shall remain. 20Lift up your eyes, and behold them, that come from the North: Like a fat flock shall they fall upon thee. 21To whom will thou make thy moan, when they come upon thee? for thou hast taught them thy self, and made them masters over thee. Shall not sorrow come upon thee, as on a woman travailing with child? 22And if thou wouldest say then in thine heart: Wherefore come these things upon me? Even for the multitude of thy blasphemies, shall thy hinder parts and thy feet be discovered. 23For like as the man of Inde may change his skin, and the cat of the mountains her spots: so may ye that be exercised in evil, do good. 24Therefore will I scatter you, like as the stubble that is taken away with the south wind. 25This shall be your portion, and the portion of your measure, where with ye shall be rewarded of me, sayeth the LORD: because ye have forgotten me, and put your trust in deceitful things. 26Therefore shall I turn thy clothes over thy head, and discover thy thighs, that thy privates may be seen, 27thy advoutry, thy deadly malice, thy beastliness, and thy shameful whoredom. For upon the fields and hills I have seen thy abominations. Woe be unto thee (O Jerusalem) when wilt thou ever be cleansed any more? |
| 2 Timothy 2:11-21 | | 11It is a true saying: If we be dead with him, we also shall live with him; 12If we be patient, we shall also reign with him; If we deny him, he also shall deny us; 13If we believe not, yet abideth he faithful; He cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, and testify before the Lord, that they strive not about words, which is to no profit, but to pervert the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself laudable unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, dividing the word of truth justly. 16Unghostly and vain voices pass over. For they shall increase unto greater ungodliness, 17and their words shall fret even as doth a canker: of whose number is Hymeneos and Philetos, 18which as concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and do destroy the faith of divers persons. 19But the sure ground of God remaineth, and hath this seal: the Lord knoweth them that are his, and let every man that calleth on the name of Christ, depart from iniquity. 20Notwithstanding in a great house are not only vessels of gold and of silver: but also of wood and of earth: Some for honour, and some unto dishonour. 21 If a man purge himself from such fellows, he shall be a vessel sanctified unto honour meet for the Lord, and prepared unto all good works. |
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| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
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| Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| JAdmin wrote: | Act 13:5 And when they were come to Solamine, they shewed the word of God in the synagogues, unto{of} the jews. And they had John to their minister.
Act 13:6 When they had gone over all{thorowout} the Isle unto the city of Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet which was a jew,
Act 13:7 named Barjesu,{Bariesu} which was with the ruler of the country one Sergius Paulus a prudent man.<man of understanding> The same ruler called unto him Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
Act 13:8 [But] The sorcerer Elemas (for so was his name by interpretation) withstood{stood} them, and sought to turn away the ruler from the faith.
Act 13:9 Then Saul which also is called Paul being full of the holy ghost, set his eyes on him, and said:
Act 13:10 O full of all subtlety<futility> and deceitfulness [and] the child of the devil, and the enemy of all righteousness thou ceasest not to pervert the straight ways of the Lord.
Act 13:11 And now behold the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind and not see the sun for a season. And immediately{there} fell on him a mist and a darkness; And he went about seeking, them that should lead him by the hand.
Act 13:12 Then the ruler when he saw what had happened, believed, and wondered at the doctrine of the Lord.
| Code: | | Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns? Or figs of briars?{thistles?} |
| Psalms 4:5 | | Offer the sacrifice of righteousness, and put your trust in the LORD. |
| Matthew 5:6 | | Blessed are they which hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they shall be filled. |
| Quote: | | Mat 5:20 For I say unto you except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and pharisees, ye cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. |
| Matthew 6:33 | | But rather seek ye first the kingdom of heaven, and the righteousness thereof, and all these things shall be ministered unto you. |
| Matthew 21:32-44 | | 32For John came unto you, in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not. But the publicans and the whores believed him. But ye (though ye saw it) yet were not moved with repentance, that ye might afterward have believed him. 33Hearken another similitude. There was a certain householder, which set a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and made a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a strange country. 34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, to receive the fruits of it, 35and the husbandmen caught his servants, and beat one, killed another, and stoned another. 36Again he sent other servants more than the first, and they served them likewise. 37But last of all, he sent unto them his own son, saying: they will fear my son. 38 When the husbandmen saw his son, they said among them selves: This is the heir, come on let us kill him, and let us take his inheritance, to our selves. 39And they caught him and thrust him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40When the lord of the vineyard cometh: what will he do with those husbandmen? 41They said unto him: he will evil destroy those evil persons, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall deliver him his fruit at times convenient. 42Jesus said unto them: did ye never read in the scriptures? The same stone which the builders refused, is set in the principal part of the corner: this was the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes. 43Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and shall be given to the Gentiles which shall bring forth the fruits of it. 44And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall be alto broken. And whosoever this stone shall fall upon, he shall grind him to powder. |
| John 7:16-18 | | 16Jesus answered them, and said: My doctrine is not mine: but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God: or whether I spake of myself. 18He that speaketh of himself, seeketh his own praise. But he that seeketh his praise that sent him, he is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. |
| Quote: | 2Ti 2:10 Herefore I suffer all things, for the elects' sakes, that they might also obtain that health<salvation> which is in Christ Jesu, with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:11 It is a true saying: If we be dead with him, we also shall live with him;
2Ti 2:12 If we be patient, we shall also reign with him; If we deny him, he also shall deny us;
2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet abideth he faithful; He cannot deny himself.
2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, and testify before the Lord, that they strive not about words, which is to no profit, but to pervert the hearers. |
Master William Tyndale well said in his prologue to the first English Pentateuch translated from the Hebrew:
| Quote: | When I had translated the new testament, I added a pistel unto the latter end, in which I desired them that were learned to amend if ought were found amiss. But our malicious and wily hypocrites which are so stubborn and hard hearted in their wicked abominations that it is not possible for them to amend any thing at all (as we see by daily experience, when both their livings and doings are rebuked with the truth) say, some of them that it is impossible to translate the scripture into English, some that it is not lawful for the lay people to have it in their mother tongue, some, that it would make them all heretics, as it would no doubt from many things which they of long time have falsely taught, and that is the whole cause wherefore they forbid it, though they other cloaks pretend. And some or rather every one, say that it would make them rise against the king, whom they themselves (unto their damnation) never yet obeyed. And lest the temporal rulers should see their falsehood, if the scripture came to light, causeth them so to lie. And as for my translation in which they affirm unto the lay people (as I have heard say) to be I wot not how many thousand heresies, so that it cannot be mended or correct, they have yet taken so great pain to examine it, and to compare it unto that they would fain have it and to their own imaginations and juggling terms, and to have somewhat to rail at, and under that cloak to blaspheme the truth, that they might with as little labour (as I suppose) have translated the most part of the bible. For they which in times past were wont to look on no more scripture than they found in their Duns or such like devilish doctrine, have yet now so narrowly looked on my translation, that there is not so much as one i therein if it lack a tittle over his head, but they have noted it, and number it unto the ignorant people for an heresy. Finally in this they be all agreed, to drive you from the knowledge of the scripture, and that ye shall not have the text thereof in the mother tongue, and to keep the world still in darkness, to the intent they might sit in the consciences of the people, thorow vain superstition and false doctrine, to satisfy their filthy lusts, their proud ambition, and unsatiable covetousness, and to exalt their own honour above king and emperor, yea and above God himself.
A thousand books had they lever to be put forth against their abominable doings and doctrine, than that the scripture should come to light. For as long as they may keep that down, they will so darken the right way with the mist of their sophistry, and so tangle them that either rebuke or despise their abominations with arguments of philosophy and with wordily {worldly} similitudes and apparent reasons of natural wisdom. And with wresting the scripture unto their own purpose clean contrary unto the process, order and meaning of the text, and so delude them in descanting upon it with allegories, and amaze them expounding it in many senses before the unlearned lay people (when it hath but one simple literal sense whose light the owls cannot abide) that though thou feel in thine heart and art sure how that all is false that they say, yet couldst thou not solve their subtle riddles.
Which thing only moved me to translate the new testament. Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: for else whatsoever truth is taught them, these enemies of all truth quench it again, partly with the smoke of their bottomless pit whereof thou readest Apocalypse ix.{9} that is, with apparent reasons of sophistry, and traditions of their own making, founded without ground of scripture, and partly in juggling with the text, expounding it in such a sense as is impossible to gather of the text, if thou see the process, order, and meaning thereof.
And even in the bishop of London's house I intended to have done it. For when I was so turmoiled in the country where I was that I could no longer there dwell (the process whereof were too long here to rehearse) I this wise thought in myself, this I suffer because the priests of the country be unlearned, as God it knoweth there are a full ignorant sort which have seen no more Latin than that they read in their portesses and missals which yet many of them can scarcely read, (except it be Albertus de secretis mulierum in which yet, though they be never so sorrily learned, they pore day and night, and make notes therein and all to teach the midwives as they say, and Linwode a book of constitutions to gather tithes, mortuaries, offerings, customs, and other pillage, which they call, not theirs, but God's part and the duty of holy church, to discharge their consciences withall: for they are bound that they shall not diminish, but increase all things unto the uttermost of their powers) and therefore (because they are thus unlearned, thought I) when they come together to the ale house, which is their preaching place, they affirm that my sayings are heresy. And besides that they add to of their own heads which I never spake, as the manner is to prolong the tale to short the time withall, and accused me secretly to the chancellor and other the bishop's officers. And indeed, when I came before the chancellor, he threatened me grievously, and reviled me, and rated me as though I had been a dog, and laid to my charge whereof there could be none accuser brought forth, (as their manner is not to bring forth the accuser) and yet all the priests of the country were the same day there. As I this thought the bishop of London came to my remembrance whom Erasmus (whose tongue maketh of little gnats great elephants and lifteth up above the stars whosoever giveth him a little exhibition) praiseth exceedingly among other in his annotations on the new testament for his great learning. Then thought I, if I might come to this man's service, I were happy. And so I gat me to London, and, thorow the acquaintance of my master came to sir Harry Gilford, the king's grace's controller, and bought him an oration of Isocrates which I had translated out of Greek into English, and desired him to speak unto my lord of London for me, which he also did as he shewed me, and willed me to write a pistel to my lord, and to go to him myself which I also did, and delivered my pistel to a servant of his own, one William Hebylthwaite, a man of mine old acquaintance. But God which knoweth what is within hypocrites, saw that I was beguiled, and that that counsel was not the next way unto my purpose. And therefore he gat me no favour in my lord's sight.
Whereupon my lord answered me, his house was full, he had more than he could well find, and advised me to seek in London, where he said I could not lack a service. And so in London I abode almost a year, and marked the course of the world, and heard our praters, I would say our preachers how they boasted themselves and their high authority, and beheld the pomp of our prelates, and how busied they were as they yet are, to set peace and unity in the world (though it be not possible for them that walk in darkness to continue long in peace, for they cannot but either stumble or dash themselves at one thing or another that shall clean unquiet all together) and saw things whereof I defer to speak at this time and understood at the last not only that there was no room in my lord of London's palace to translate the new testament, but also that there was no place to do it in all England, as experience doth now openly declare.
Under what manner therefore should I now submit this book to be corrected and amended of them which can suffer nothing to be well? Or what protestation should I make in such a matter unto our prelates those stubborn Nimrods which so mightily fight against God, and resist his holy spirit, enforcing with all craft and subtlety to quench the light of the everlasting testament, promises, and appointment made between God and us: and heaping the fierce wrath of God upon all princes and rulers, mocking them with false feigned names of hypocrisy, and serving their lusts at all points, and dispensing with them even of the very laws of God, of which Christ himself testifieth, Matt. v.{5} that not so much as one tittle thereof may perish, or be broken. And of which the prophet saith, Psalm cxviij.{118} Thou hast commanded thy laws to be kept meod, that is in Hebrew exceedingly, with all diligence, might and power and have made them so mad with their juggling charms and crafty persuasions that they think it a full satisfaction for all their wicked lying, to torment such as tell them truth, and to burn the word of their souls' health, and slay whosoever believe thereon.
Notwitstonding yet I submit this book and all other that I have either made or translated, or shall in time to come, (if it be God's will that I shall further labour in his harvest) unto all them that submit themselves unto the word of God, to be corrected of them, yea and moreover to be disallowed and also burnt, if it seem worthy when they have examined it with the Hebrew, so that they first put forth of their own translating another that is more correct. |
2Co 5:20 Now then are we messengers in the room of Christ: even as though God did beseech you thorow us:{exhorted by us} So pray we you<We beseek you now therefore> in Christ's stead, that ye be at one with God:
2Co 5:21 for he hath made him to be sin for us, which knew no sin, that we by his means should be that righteousness which before God is allowed.{aloved}
1Co 1:26 Brethren look on your calling how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many of high degree are called:
1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world, to confound the wise. And [God] hath chosen the weak things of the world, to confound things which are mighty.
1Co 1:28 And vile things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen yea and things of no reputation, for to bring to nought things of reputation,
1Co 1:29 that no flesh should rejoice in his presence.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye made safe <saved> thorow faith, and that not of your selves: For it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 and cometh not of works, lest any man should boast himself.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesu unto good works, unto the which God ordained us before, that we should walk in them.
| Jeremiah 13:7-27 | | 7Then went I to Euphrates, and digged up, and took the breech from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the breech was corrupt, so that it was profitable for nothing. 8Then said the LORD unto me: 9Thus sayeth the LORD: Even so will I corrupt the pride of Judah, and the high mind of Jerusalem. 10This people is a wicked people, they will not hear my word, they follow the wicked imaginations of their own heart, and hang upon strange gods, them have they served and worshiped: and therefore they shall be as this breech, that serveth for nothing. 11For as straightly as a breech lieth upon a man's loins, so straightly did I bind the whole house of Israel, and the whole house of Juda unto me, sayeth the LORD: that they might be my people: that they might have a glorious name: that they might be in honour: but they would not obey me. 12Therefore lay this riddle before them, and say: Thus sayeth the LORD God of Israel: Every pot shall be filled with wine. And they shall say: thinkest thou we know not, that every pot shall be filled with wine? 13Then shalt thou say unto them: Thus sayeth the LORD: Behold, I shall fill all the inhabiters of this land with drunkenness, the kings that sit upon David's stool, the Priests and Prophets, with all that dwell at Jerusalem. 14And I will shoot them one against another, yea the fathers against the sons, sayeth the LORD. I will not pardon them, I will not spare them, nor have pity upon them: but destroy them. 15Be obedient, give ear, take no disdain at it, for it is the LORD himself that speaketh. 16Honour the LORD your God herein, or he take his light from you, and or ever your feet stumble in darkness at the hill: lest when ye look for the light, he turn it into the shadow and darkness of death. 17But if ye will not hear me, that give you secret warning, I will mourn from my whole heart for your stubbornness. Piteously will I weep, and the tears shall gush out of mine eyes. For the LORD's flock shall be carried away captive. 18Tell the king and the rulers: Humble yourselves, set you down low, for the crown of your glory shall fall from your head. 19The cities toward the south shall be shut up, and no man shall open them. All Juda shall be carried away captive, so that none shall remain. 20Lift up your eyes, and behold them, that come from the North: Like a fat flock shall they fall upon thee. 21To whom will thou make thy moan, when they come upon thee? for thou hast taught them thy self, and made them masters over thee. Shall not sorrow come upon thee, as on a woman travailing with child? 22And if thou wouldest say then in thine heart: Wherefore come these things upon me? Even for the multitude of thy blasphemies, shall thy hinder parts and thy feet be discovered. 23For like as the man of Inde may change his skin, and the cat of the mountains her spots: so may ye that be exercised in evil, do good. 24Therefore will I scatter you, like as the stubble that is taken away with the south wind. 25This shall be your portion, and the portion of your measure, where with ye shall be rewarded of me, sayeth the LORD: because ye have forgotten me, and put your trust in deceitful things. 26Therefore shall I turn thy clothes over thy head, and discover thy thighs, that thy privates may be seen, 27thy advoutry, thy deadly malice, thy beastliness, and thy shameful whoredom. For upon the fields and hills I have seen thy abominations. Woe be unto thee (O Jerusalem) when wilt thou ever be cleansed any more? |
| 2 Timothy 2:11-21 | | 11It is a true saying: If we be dead with him, we also shall live with him; 12If we be patient, we shall also reign with him; If we deny him, he also shall deny us; 13If we believe not, yet abideth he faithful; He cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, and testify before the Lord, that they strive not about words, which is to no profit, but to pervert the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself laudable unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, dividing the word of truth justly. 16Unghostly and vain voices pass over. For they shall increase unto greater ungodliness, 17and their words shall fret even as doth a canker: of whose number is Hymeneos and Philetos, 18which as concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and do destroy the faith of divers persons. 19But the sure ground of God remaineth, and hath this seal: the Lord knoweth them that are his, and let every man that calleth on the name of Christ, depart from iniquity. 20Notwithstanding in a great house are not only vessels of gold and of silver: but also of wood and of earth: Some for honour, and some unto dishonour. 21 If a man purge himself from such fellows, he shall be a vessel sanctified unto honour meet for the Lord, and prepared unto all good works. |
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| Quote: | | 16Jesus answered them, and said: My doctrine is not mine: but his that sent me. 17If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God: or whether I spake of myself. 18He that speaketh of himself, seeketh his own praise. But he that seeketh his praise that sent him, he is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. |
Amen to that!
In addition, in the Love of the 25 Only God our Savior, through our Lord Jesus Christ be glory, majesty, strength and authority before all the ages, both now and forever. I ask:
Why does your translation of verse 25 not include "our Lord Jesus Christ?
Did you read what you posted?
| Quote: | | and have made them so mad with their juggling charms and crafty persuasions that they think it a full satisfaction for all their wicked lying, to torment such as tell them truth, |
Perhaps, you should read again these statements and examine all MSS and not just the ones that suit you are juggling!
When I had translated the New Testament, I added a pistel unto the latter end, in which I desired them that were learned to amend if ought were found amiss.
Which thing only moved me to translate the New Testament. Because I had perceived by experience how that it was impossible to establish the lay people in any truth, except the scripture were plainly laid before their eyes in their mother tongue, that they might see the process, order, and meaning of the text: for else whatsoever truth is taught them, these enemies of all truth quench it again, partly with the smoke of their bottomless pit whereof thou readest Apocalypse ix.{9} that is, with apparent reasons of sophistry, and traditions of their own making, founded without ground of scripture, and partly in juggling with the text, expounding it in such a sense as is impossible to gather of the text, if thou see the process, order, and meaning thereof.
Say, some of them that it is impossible to translate the scripture into English, some that it is not lawful for the lay people to have it in their mother tongue, some, that it would make them all heretics, as it would no doubt from many things which they of long time have falsely taught, and that is the whole cause wherefore they forbid it, though they other cloaks pretend.
And as for my translation in which they affirm unto the lay people (as I have heard say) to be I wot not how many thousand heresies, so that it cannot be mended or correct, they have yet taken so great pain to examine it, and to compare it unto that they would fain have it and to their own imaginations and juggling terms, and to have somewhat to rail at, and under that cloak to blaspheme the truth, that they might with as little labor (as I suppose) have translated the most part of the bible.
For they which in times past were wont to look on no more scripture than they found in their Duns or such like devilish doctrine, have yet now so narrowly looked on my translation, that there is not so much as one I therein if it lack a title over his head, but they have noted it, and number it unto the ignorant people for an heresy.
Finally in this they be all agreed, to drive you from the knowledge of the scripture, and that ye shall not have the text thereof in the mother tongue, and to keep the world still in darkness, to the intent they might sit in the consciences of the people, thorow vain superstition and false doctrine, to satisfy their filthy lusts, their proud ambition, and insatiable covetousness, and to exalt their own honor above king and emperor, yea and above God himself.
And with wresting the scripture unto their own purpose clean contrary unto the process, order and meaning of the text, and so delude them in descanting upon it with allegories, and amaze them expounding it in many senses before the unlearned lay people (when it hath but one simple literal sense whose light the owls cannot abide) that though thou feel in thine heart and art sure how that all is false that they say, yet couldst thou not solve their subtle riddles
Linwode a book of constitutions to gather tithes (ignoring the passage "That I present the Gospel without charge), mortuaries, offerings, customs, and other pillage, that they call, not theirs, but God's part and the duty of holy church, to discharge their consciences withal:
Nimrods which so mightily fight against God, and resist his holy spirit(Ac 5:39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.), enforcing with all craft and subtlety to quench the light of the everlasting testament, promises, and appointment made between God and us: and heaping the fierce wrath of God upon all princes and rulers, mocking them with false feigned names of hypocrisy, and serving their lusts at all points, and dispensing with them even of the very laws of God, of which Christ himself testifies, Matt. v.{5} that not so much as one tittles thereof may perish, or be broken.
And of which the prophet saith, Psalm cxviij.{118} Thou hast commanded thy laws to be kept meod, that is in Hebrew exceedingly, with all diligence, might and power and have made them so mad with their juggling charms and crafty persuasions that they think it a full satisfaction for all their wicked lying, to torment such as tell them truth, and to burn the word of their souls' health, and slay whosoever believe thereon.
So that they first put forth of their own translating another that is more correct.
AND HERE IS THE CORRECTED TEXT AS INSPIRED:
Jude 1:14-25
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord Cometh with a holy myriad,
15 ? to execute judgment against all the impious (763), and rebuke (1649) concerning all of their works of impiety which they did and concerning all of the hard things the impious sinners spoke against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their vehemenent desires; and their mouth speaketh great swellings, admiring persons who favor (5495) gain.
17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 That they said to you in the last times, there will be scoffers , walking according to their impious vehement desires.
19 These are they dividing (590.1), the sensual, not having a Spirit.
20 But you, beloved, building up yourselves in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21 Keeping yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life.
22 Indeed, αnd some of you do pity, judging, you save some snatching out of the fire:
23 Some but you do pity, with fear; indeed, hating the garment spotted from the flesh.
24 Now the powerful one guards you without vacillating , and place you harmless in the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 Only God our Savior, through our Lord Jesus Christ be glory, majesty, strength and authority before all the ages, both now and forever. Amen.
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
Moderator
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| Heman wrote: |
In addition, in the Love of the 25 Only God our Savior, through our Lord Jesus Christ be glory, majesty, strength and authority before all the ages, both now and forever. I ask:
Why does your translation of verse 25 not include "our Lord Jesus Christ?
Did you read what you posted?
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Yes i did read. Regardless there's no direct quote of Jude on what i posted. Furthermore it is not my translation but a faithful restoration of WT's and devout friends' work. And yes it does include Iesus Christ our Lord!
i.e. For everybody that have an clear eye to lo and behold:
| Jude 1:25 | | that is to say, to God our saviour ([thorow Iesus Christ oure lord]) which only is wise, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, ([before all worldes]) now and for ever Amen. Here ends the epistle of Judas |
http://faithofgod.net/TyNT/jd.htm#1:25
It is clearly bracketed because it resembles Thomas Cranmer's edition of William Tyndale's New Testament translation (in the authorised Great Bible) that includes the Old Latin renderings.
| Luke 6:39-45 | | 39And he put forth a similitude unto them: Can the blind lead the blind? Do they not both then fall into the ditch? 40The disciple is not above his master. Every man shall be perfect, even as his master is. 41Why seest thou a mote in thy brother's eye, and considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 42Other how canst thou say to thy brother: Brother let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye: when thou perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Hypocrite, cast out the beam out of thine own eye first, and then shalt thou see perfectly, to pull out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 43It is not a good tree that bringeth forth evil fruit: Neither is that an evil tree, that bringeth forth good fruit. 44For every tree is known by his fruit. Neither of thorns gather men figs, nor of bushes gather they grapes. 45A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good. And the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart, bringeth forth that which is evil. For of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. |
| Code: | John 9:39 Jesus said: I am come unto judgement, into this world: that they which see not, might see, and they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the pharisees which were with him, heard these words and said unto him: Are we then blind?
41 Jesus said unto them, if ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say we see, therefore your sin remaineth. |
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| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
Last edited by JAdmin on Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:25 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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heman
Banned!
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| JAdmin wrote: | | Heman wrote: |
In addition, in the Love of the 25 Only God our Savior, through our Lord Jesus Christ be glory, majesty, strength and authority before all the ages, both now and forever. I ask:
Why does your translation of verse 25 not include "our Lord Jesus Christ?
Did you read what you posted?
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Yes i did read. Regardless there's no direct quote of Jude on what i posted. Furthermore it is not my translation but a faithful restoration of WT's and devout friends' work. And yes it does include Iesus Christ our Lord!
i.e. For everybody that have an eye to lo and behold:
| Jude 1:25 | | that is to say, to God our saviour ([thorow Iesus Christ oure lord]) which only is wise, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, ([before all worldes]) now and for ever Amen. Here ends the epistle of Judas |
http://faithofgod.net/TyNT/jd.htm#1:25
It is clearly bracketed because it resembles Thomas Cranmer's edition of William Tyndale's New Testament translation (in the authorised Great Bible) that includes the Old Latin renderings.
| Luke 6:39-45 | | 39And he put forth a similitude unto them: Can the blind lead the blind? Do they not both then fall into the ditch? 40The disciple is not above his master. Every man shall be perfect, even as his master is. 41Why seest thou a mote in thy brother's eye, and considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 42Other how canst thou say to thy brother: Brother let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye: when thou perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Hypocrite, cast out the beam out of thine own eye first, and then shalt thou see perfectly, to pull out the mote out of thy brother's eye. 43It is not a good tree that bringeth forth evil fruit: Neither is that an evil tree, that bringeth forth good fruit. 44For every tree is known by his fruit. Neither of thorns gather men figs, nor of bushes gather they grapes. 45A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good. And the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart, bringeth forth that which is evil. For of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. |
| Code: | John 9:39 Jesus said: I am come unto judgement, into this world: that they which see not, might see, and they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the pharisees which were with him, heard these words and said unto him: Are we then blind?
41 Jesus said unto them, if ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say we see, therefore your sin remaineth. |
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| Quote: | | that is to say, to God our saviour ([thorow Iesus Christ oure lord]) which only is wise, be glory, majesty, dominion, and power, ([before all worldes]) now and for ever Amen. Here ends the epistle of Judas |
I humbly beg your pardon! I thought the "italics" were excluded!
Here is one for you:
1:19 Because in him it was thought good
22 to present you saints, and blameless and irreproachable in his presence,
23 creation
(see below)
Col 1:1Paul an apostle of Anointed Jesu through the will of God, and Timotheus the brother. 1:2To those in Colossa the saints, and faithful brethren in Christ. Grace to you and peace from God. 1:3We give thanks to God the father of our Lord Jesus always praying concerning you,
1:4 having heard of your faith in Anointed Jesu: and of the love for all the saints 1:5for the hope that is being laid up for you in heaven, which ye have heard before in the word of truth of the gospel, 1:6that which is present among you, even as it is into all the world, and is fruitful and groweth as also in you, from the day in the which ye heard and acknowledged the grace of God in truth, 1:7as ye learned of Epaphra our beloved fellow servant, who is faithful, a servant in Christ, on your behalf,
1:8who also related to us your love in the spirit. 1:9For this cause we also, since the day we heard have not ceased praying for you, that ye might be filled with the full knowledge of his will, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding,
1:10that ye might walk worthy of the Lord to all, pleasing in every good work fruitful and growing in the full knowledge of God
1:11 with all might ,strengthed, according to his glorious power, for all patience, and endurance, with joy, 1:12giving thanks unto the father who called to that having fitted us for the portion of the inheritance of saints in the light.
1:13Who delivered us from the authority of darkness, and hath caused a change of sides for the kingdom of his beloved son, 1:14in whom we have the redemption, forgiveness of sins.
1:15who is a likeness of the unseen God. First born of every creation: 1:16because in him were all things created, in the heavens, and on the earth: things visible, and things invisible: whether they be thrones or lordships, or governments or authorities.
1:17All things on account of him and for him have been created. And he is in advance of all and in him, all things have been placed together. 1:18And he is the head of the body, of the congregation, he is the beginning, first born out of the dead ones, so that among all he might become preeminent.
1:19 Because in him it was thought good that all fullness should dwell, 1:20and by means of him to reconcile all things to him, and made peace by means of the blood of his cross wheither on the earth or the things in heaven.
1:21And you once were in times past strangers and enemies, because your minds were in those wicked works he hath now indeed reconciled 1:22in the body of his flesh thorough death, to present you saints, and blameless and irreproachable in his presence,
1:23if ye continue grounded and established in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel whereof ye have heard, how that it is preached among all creation that are under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister.
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
Moderator
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| Heman wrote: | | I humbly beg your pardon! I thought the "italics" were excluded! |
Seeing i'm just a fool in this world.. you ought to rather beg God's pardon!
| 1 John 1:9-10 | | 9If we knowledge our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. |
| Isaiah 55:7-13 | | 7Let the ungodly man forsake his ways and the unrighteous his imaginations, and turn again unto the LORD: so shall he be merciful unto him: and to our God, for he is ready to forgive. 8For thus sayeth the LORD: my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways, 9but as far as the heavens are higher than the earth, so far do my ways exceed yours, and my thoughts yours. 10And like as the rain and snow cometh down from heaven, and returneth not thither again, but watereth the earth, maketh it fruitful and green, that it may give corn and bread unto the sower: 11So the word also that cometh out of my mouth shall not turn again void unto me, but shall accomplish my will and prosper in the thing, whereto I sent it. 12And so shall ye go forth with joy, and be lead with peace. The mountains and hills shall sing with you for joy, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13For thorns, there shall grow Fir trees, and the Myrtle tree in the stead of briers. And this shall be done to the praise of the LORD, and for an everlasting token, that shall not be taken away. |
Pardon me if I'm here not to please itchy ears nor tickle them. (Ok - perhaps just a bit of tingle;) Nevertheless, how and what the Scriptures say, it, expresses singly without any bamboozled language syntax.
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| Heman wrote: | Here is one for you:
1:19 Because in him it was thought good
22 to present you saints, and blameless and irreproachable in his presence,
23 creation
-- |
Taking the father out renders the passage completely oblivious (even irreproachable) to within whom he is.
| Code: | | 1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar: but he that denieth that Jesus is Christ? he<The same> is the antichrist that denieth the father and the son. |
Of course the correct translation of the original tongue (from the martyrs) is:
| Colossians 1:19-23 | | 19For it pleased the father that in him should all fullness dwell, 20and by him to reconcile all things unto himself, and to set at peace by him thorow the blood of his cross both things in heaven and things in earth. 21And you (which were in times past strangers and enemies, because your minds were set in evil works) hath he now reconciled 22in the body of his flesh thorow death, to make you holy, and such as no man could complain on, and without fault in his own sight, 23if ye continue grounded and stablished in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, whereof ye have heard, how that it is preached among all creatures, which are under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. |
There's a huge difference between old texts and the true manuscripts testimony as a holy whole (withstanding the test of time) provided in the sovereign providence of God. Yea at a very high price since Christ!
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
Banned!
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| JAdmin wrote: | | Heman wrote: | | I humbly beg your pardon! I thought the "italics" were excluded! |
Seeing i'm just a fool in this world.. you ought to rather beg God's pardon!
| 1 John 1:9-10 | | 9If we knowledge our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. |
| Isaiah 55:7-13 | | 7Let the ungodly man forsake his ways and the unrighteous his imaginations, and turn again unto the LORD: so shall he be merciful unto him: and to our God, for he is ready to forgive. 8For thus sayeth the LORD: my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways, 9but as far as the heavens are higher than the earth, so far do my ways exceed yours, and my thoughts yours. 10And like as the rain and snow cometh down from heaven, and returneth not thither again, but watereth the earth, maketh it fruitful and green, that it may give corn and bread unto the sower: 11So the word also that cometh out of my mouth shall not turn again void unto me, but shall accomplish my will and prosper in the thing, whereto I sent it. 12And so shall ye go forth with joy, and be lead with peace. The mountains and hills shall sing with you for joy, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. 13For thorns, there shall grow Fir trees, and the Myrtle tree in the stead of briers. And this shall be done to the praise of the LORD, and for an everlasting token, that shall not be taken away. |
Pardon me if I'm here not to please itchy ears nor tickle them. (Ok - perhaps just a bit of tingle;) Nevertheless, how and what the Scriptures say, it, expresses singly without any bamboozled language syntax.
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| Heman wrote: | Here is one for you:
1:19 Because in him it was thought good
22 to present you saints, and blameless and irreproachable in his presence,
23 creation
-- |
Taking the father out renders the passage completely oblivious (even irreproachable) to within whom he is.
| Code: | | 1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar: but he that denieth that Jesus is Christ? he<The same> is the antichrist that denieth the father and the son. |
Of course the correct translation of the original tongue (from the martyrs) is:
| Colossians 1:19-23 | | 19For it pleased the father that in him should all fullness dwell, 20and by him to reconcile all things unto himself, and to set at peace by him thorow the blood of his cross both things in heaven and things in earth. 21And you (which were in times past strangers and enemies, because your minds were set in evil works) hath he now reconciled 22in the body of his flesh thorow death, to make you holy, and such as no man could complain on, and without fault in his own sight, 23if ye continue grounded and stablished in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, whereof ye have heard, how that it is preached among all creatures, which are under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. |
There's a huge difference between old texts and the true manuscripts testimony as a holy whole (withstanding the test of time) provided in the sovereign providence of God. Yea at a very high price since Christ! |
| Quote: | | Taking the father out renders the passage completely oblivious (even irreproachable) to within whom he is. |
| Quote: | | 19For it pleased the father that in him should all fullness dwell, 20and by him to reconcile all things unto himself, and to set at peace by him thorow the blood of his cross both things in heaven and things in earth. |
1:19 3754 οτι Because 1722 εν in 1473 αυτω him 2106 ευδοκησε it was thought good 3956 παν all 3588 το the 4138 πληρωμα fullness 2730 κατοικησαι to dwell; 1:20 2532 και and 1223 δι by means 1473 αυτου of him 604 αποκαταλλαχαι to reconcile 3588 τα the things 3956 παντα all 1519 εις to 1473 αυτον him, 1517 ειρηνοποιησας having made peace 1223 δια by means 3588 του of the 129 αιματος blood 3588 του of the 4716-1473 σταθρου cross, 1473 αυτου of him, 1535 ειτε whether 3588 τα the things 1909
επι on 3588 της the 1093 γης earth, 1535 ειτε whether 3588 τα the things 1722 εν In 3588 τοις the 3772 ουρανοις heavens.
| Quote: | | There's a huge difference between old texts and the true manuscripts testimony as a holy whole (withstanding the test of time) provided in the sovereign providence of God. Yea at a very high price since Christ! |
| Quote: | | 23if ye continue grounded and stablished in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, whereof ye have heard, how that it is preached among all creatures, which are under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. |
1:23 1489 ειγε if indeed 1961 επιμενετε you continue 3588 τη in the 4102 πιστει faith 2311 τεγεμελιωμενοαι being founded 2532 και and 1476 εδραιοι settled, 2532 και and 3361 μη not 3334 μετακινουμενοι being moved away 575 απο from 3588 της the
1680 ελπιδος hope 3588 τοθ of the 2098 ευαγγελιου gospel 3739 ου of that 191 ηκουσατε you heard, 3588 του of the 2784 κηρυχθεντος being proclaimed 1722 εν in 3956 παση all 2937 κτισει creation, 3588 τη that 5259 υπο under 3588 τον the 3772 ουρανον heaven, 3739 ου of which 1096 εγενομην became 1473 εγω I PauloV Paul 1249 διακονος a servant
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
Moderator
Joined: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 279
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| Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Jadmin wrote: | Taking the father out renders the passage completely oblivious (even irreproachable) to within whom he is.
..
19For it pleased the father that in him should all fullness dwell, 20and by him to reconcile all things unto himself, and to set at peace by him thorow the blood of his cross both things in heaven and things in earth. |
| Heman wrote: | 1:19 3754 οτι Because 1722 εν in 1473 αυτω him 2106 ευδοκησε it was thought good 3956 παν all 3588 το the 4138 πληρωμα fullness 2730 κατοικησαι to dwell; 1:20 2532 και and 1223 δι by means 1473 αυτου of him 604 αποκαταλλαχαι to reconcile 3588 τα the things 3956 παντα all 1519 εις to 1473 αυτον him, 1517 ειρηνοποιησας having made peace 1223 δια by means 3588 του of the 129 αιματος blood 3588 του of the 4716-1473 σταθρου cross, 1473 αυτου of him, 1535 ειτε whether 3588 τα the things 1909
επι on 3588 της the 1093 γης earth, 1535 ειτε whether 3588 τα the things 1722 εν In 3588 τοις the 3772 ουρανοις heavens. |
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Though the Greek may agree to say:
1:19 οτι εν αυτω ευδοκησεν παν το πληρωμα κατοικησαι
That does not mean the whole passage is expressed correctly if limiting it to a verse when the original was rather done in message form. (And of course can only be grasped as a whole.) Like the included Erasmus 1522 snapshot thereof, that even had the Greek side by side with Latin and it's great significance too.
| Code: | | Joh 19:20 This title<superscription> read many of the jews. For the place where Jesus was crucified, was nigh to the city. And it was written in hebrew, greek and latin. |
(See post: Love and Charity)
Here's another ensample (with verses out) but FYI with variant differences between later manuscripts.
| Quote: |
ευχαριστουμεν τω θεω tsbκαι πατρι του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου παντοτε περι υμων προσευχομενοι ακουσαντες την πιστιν υμων εν χριστω ιησου και την αγαπην aην aεχετε tsbτην εις παντας τους αγιους δια την ελπιδα την αποκειμενην υμιν εν τοις ουρανοις ην προηκουσατε εν τω λογω της αληθειας του ευαγγελιου του παροντος εις υμας καθως και εν παντι τω κοσμω tsbκαι εστιν καρποφορουμενον aκαι b[και aαυξανομενον bαυξανομενον] καθως και εν υμιν αφ ης ημερας ηκουσατε και επεγνωτε την χαριν του θεου εν αληθεια καθως tsbκαι εμαθετε απο επαφρα του αγαπητου συνδουλου ημων ος εστιν πιστος υπερ υμων διακονος του χριστου ο και δηλωσας ημιν την υμων αγαπην εν πνευματι δια τουτο και ημεις αφ ης ημερας ηκουσαμεν ου παυομεθα υπερ υμων προσευχομενοι και αιτουμενοι ινα πληρωθητε την επιγνωσιν του θεληματος αυτου εν παση σοφια και συνεσει πνευματικη περιπατησαι tsbυμας αξιως του κυριου εις πασαν αρεσκειαν εν παντι εργω αγαθω καρποφορουντες και αυξανομενοι aτη aεπιγνωσει tsbεις tsbτην tsbεπιγνωσιν του θεου εν παση δυναμει δυναμουμενοι κατα το κρατος της δοξης αυτου εις πασαν υπομονην και μακροθυμιαν μετα χαρας ευχαριστουντες τω πατρι τω ικανωσαντι aυμας tsbημας εις την μεριδα του κληρου των αγιων εν τω φωτι ος ερρυσατο ημας εκ της εξουσιας του σκοτους και μετεστησεν εις την βασιλειαν του υιου της αγαπης αυτου εν ω εχομεν την απολυτρωσιν b[δια tsδια tsbτου tsbαιματος bαυτου] tsαυτου την αφεσιν των αμαρτιων ος εστιν εικων του θεου του αορατου πρωτοτοκος πασης κτισεως οτι εν αυτω εκτισθη τα παντα tsbτα εν τοις ουρανοις και tsbτα επι της γης τα ορατα και τα αορατα ειτε θρονοι ειτε κυριοτητες ειτε αρχαι ειτε εξουσιαι τα παντα δι αυτου και εις αυτον εκτισται και αυτος εστιν προ παντων και τα παντα εν αυτω συνεστηκεν και αυτος εστιν η κεφαλη του σωματος της εκκλησιας ος εστιν αρχη πρωτοτοκος εκ των νεκρων ινα γενηται εν πασιν αυτος πρωτευων οτι εν αυτω ευδοκησεν παν το πληρωμα κατοικησαι και δι αυτου αποκαταλλαξαι τα παντα εις αυτον ειρηνοποιησας δια του αιματος του σταυρου αυτου a[δι tsbδι aαυτου] tsbαυτου ειτε τα επι της γης ειτε τα bεπι atsεν τοις ουρανοις και υμας ποτε οντας απηλλοτριωμενους και εχθρους τη διανοια εν τοις εργοις τοις πονηροις νυνι δε αποκατηλλαξεν εν τω σωματι της σαρκος αυτου δια του θανατου παραστησαι υμας αγιους και αμωμους και ανεγκλητους κατενωπιον αυτου aει aγε tsbειγε επιμενετε τη πιστει τεθεμελιωμενοι και εδραιοι και μη μετακινουμενοι απο της ελπιδος του ευαγγελιου ου ηκουσατε του κηρυχθεντος εν παση tsbτη κτισει τη υπο τον ουρανον ου εγενομην εγω παυλος διακονος
| Quote: | t - Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
s - Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
b - Byzantine Majority as identified by Von Soden and Hoskier, and utilized by Hodges & Farstad, Robinson & Pierpont.
a - Alexandrian as identified by United Bible Society, 3rd ed |
http://faithofgod.net/Greek/TaggedGr/
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| Code: | Interesting to note that the 4th Century Byzantine manuscript has επι instead of εν at 1:20 as if implying a deeper meaning.
Word: επι
Strong: G1909
Transliter: epi
a primary preposition; properly, meaning superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of distribution (with the genitive case), i.e. over, upon, etc.; of rest (with the dative case) at, on, etc.; of direction (with the accusative case) towards, upon, etc.:--about (the times), above, after, against, among, as long as (touching), at, beside, X have charge of, (be-, (where-))fore, in (a place, as much as, the time of, -to), (because) of, (up-)on (behalf of), over, (by, for) the space of, through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), with. In compounds it retains essentially the same import, at, upon, etc. (literally or figuratively).
----
Word: εν
Strong: G1722
Transliter: en
a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between 1519 and 1537); "in," at, (up-)on, by, etc.:--about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-)by (+ all means), for (... sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-)in(-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-)on, (open-)ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, (speedi-)ly, X that, X there(-in, -on), through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), under, when, where(-with), while, with(-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) preposition.
Word: εις
Pronounc: ice
Strong: G1519
Transliter: eis
a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases:--(abundant-)ly, against, among, as, at, (back-)ward, before, by, concerning, + continual, + far more exceeding, for (intent, purpose), fore, + forth, in (among, at, unto, -so much that, -to), to the intent that, + of one mind, + never, of, (up-)on, + perish, + set at one again, (so) that, therefore(-unto), throughout, til, to (be, the end, -ward), (here-)until(-to), ...ward, (where-)fore, with. Often used in composition with the same general import, but only with verbs (etc.) expressing motion (literally or figuratively).
Word: εκ
Strong: G1537
Transliter: ek
or ex ex a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote):--after, among, X are, at, betwixt(-yond), by (the means of), exceedingly, (+ abundantly above), for(- th), from (among, forth, up), + grudgingly, + heartily, X heavenly, X hereby, + very highly, in, ...ly, (because, by reason) of, off (from), on, out among (from, of), over, since, X thenceforth, through, X unto, X vehemently, with(-out). Often used in composition, with the same general import; often of completion. |
Eitherway, even the original Tyndale translation in English did not use verses.
? We give thanks to God the father of our Lord Iesus Christ alway praying for you in our prayers, since we heard of your faith which ye have in Christ Iesu: and of the love which ye bear to all saints for the hope's sake which is laid up in store for you in heaven, of which hope ye have heard by the true word of the gospell, which is come unto you, even as it is into all the world, and is fruitful as it is among you, from the first day in the which ye heard of it, and had experience in the grace of God in the truth, as ye learned of Epaphra our dear fellow servant, which is for you a faithful minister in Christ, which also declared unto us your love, which ye have in the spirit.
? For this cause we also, since the day we heard of it have not ceased praying for you, and desiring that ye might be fulfilled with the knowledge of his will, in all wisdom and spiritual understanding, that ye might walk worthy of the Lord in all things that please, being fruitful in all good works and increasing in the knowledge of God strengthed with all might, throwe his glorious power, unto all patience, and long suffering, with joyfulness, giving thanks unto the father which hath made us meet to be part takers of the inheritance of saints in light.
? Which hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear son, in whom we have redemption thorow his blood, that is to say, forgiveness of sins, which is the image of the invisible God, first begotten before all creatures: for by him were all things created, things that are in heaven, and things that are in earth: things visible, and things invisible: whether they be majesty or lordship, either rule or power. All things are created by him, and in him, and he is before all things, and in him all things have their being.
? And he is the head of the body, that is to wit of the congregation, he is the beginning and first begotten of the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the father that in him should all fullness dwell, and by him to reconcile all thinge unto himself, and to set at peace by him throw the blood of his cross both things in heaven and things in earth.
? And you (which were in times past strangers and enemies, because your minds were set in evil works) hath he now reconciled in the body of his flesh thorow death, to make you holy, and such as no man could complain on, and without fault in his own sight, if ye continue grounded and stablished in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospell, whereof ye have heard, how that it is preached among all creatures, which are under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister.
-Colossians 1:3-23
Greek or no Greek.. it is refering to the father nonetheless.
Thus it is amazing that the father would be included (and that i perceive that God the father was supervising the work since only he would already know that verses would come later on!)
Because who else would of thought it good for all the fullness to dwell in Christ.
Judge not according to the outter apperance of age or quantity.. or institutional prestigue, or what-have-you other than Christ; but rather righteously judge a manuscript in the heart of Christ according to what it says compared with the Scriptures as a holy whole.
| Quote: |
| Jadmin wrote: | | There's a huge difference between old texts and the true manuscripts testimony as a holy whole (withstanding the test of time) provided in the sovereign providence of God. Yea at a very high price since Christ! |
| Jadmin wrote: | | 23if ye continue grounded and stablished in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, whereof ye have heard, how that it is preached among all creatures, which are under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. |
| Heman wrote: |
1:23 1489 ειγε if indeed 1961 επιμενετε you continue 3588 τη in the 4102 πιστει faith 2311 τεγεμελιωμενοαι being founded 2532 και and 1476 εδραιοι settled, 2532 και and 3361 μη not 3334 μετακινουμενοι being moved away 575 απο from 3588 της the
1680 ελπιδος hope 3588 τοθ of the 2098 ευαγγελιου gospel 3739 ου of that 191 ηκουσατε you heard, 3588 του of the 2784 κηρυχθεντος being proclaimed 1722 εν in 3956 παση all 2937 κτισει creation, 3588 τη that 5259 υπο under 3588 τον the 3772 ουρανον heaven, 3739 ου of which 1096 εγενομην became 1473 εγω I PauloV Paul 1249 διακονος a servant |
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| Code: | Word: κτισει
Strong: G2937
Transliter: ktisis
from 2936; original formation (properly, the act; by implication, the thing, literally or figuratively):--building, creation, creature, ordinance. |
Thus ktisis (ktis'-is) is found 19 times in the New Testament, and depending on the passage WT was at liberty to render it adequately in English:
| WT wrote: |
building, 1
| Hebrews 9:11 | | But Christ being an high priest of good things to come, came by a greater, and a more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands: that is to say, not of this manner building, |
creation, 2
| Mark 10:6 | | But at the first creation, God made them man and woman, saying: |
| Romans 1:20 | | For his invisible things (that is to say, his eternal power and godhead) are understood and seen, by the works from the creation of the world. So that they are without excuse, |
creature[s], 14
| Mark 13:19 | | For there shall be in those days such tribulation, as was not from the beginning of creatures, which God created, unto this time, neither shall be. |
| Mark 16:15 | | And he said unto them: Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to all creatures: |
| Romans 1:25 | | which turned his truth unto a lie, and worshipped and served the creatures more than the maker, which is blessed forever Amen. |
| Romans 8:19 | | Also the fervent desire of the creatures abideth looking when the sons of God shall appear |
| Romans 8:20 | | because the creatures are subdued to vanity against their will: but for his will which subdued them in hope. |
| Romans 8:21 | | For the very creatures shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption, into the glorious liberty of the sons of God. |
| Romans 8:22 | | For we know that every creature groaneth with us also, and travaileth in pain even unto this time. |
| Romans 8:39 | | neither height, neither lowth, neither any other creature shall be able to depart us from God's love, which is in Christ Jesu our Lord. |
| 2 Corinthians 5:17 | | Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things are passed away, behold all things are become new. |
| Galatians 6:15 | | For in Christ Jesu nether circumcision availeth any thing at all nor uncircumcision: but a new creature. |
| Colossians 1:23 | | if ye continue grounded and stablished in the faith, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, whereof ye have heard, how that it is preached among all creatures, which are under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister. |
| Colossians 1:15 | | which is the image of the invisible God, first begotten before all creatures: |
| Hebrews 4:13 | | Neither is there any creature invisible in the sight of it: but all things are naked and bare unto the eyes of him, of whom we speak. |
| Revelation 3:14 | | And unto the angel of the congregation which is in Laodicia write: This saith (amen) the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creatures of God. |
ordinance, 1
| 1 Peter 2:13 | | Submit yourselves unto all manner ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether it be unto the King as unto the chief head: |
things, 1
| 2 Peter 3:4 | | and say: Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers died all things continue in the same estate wherein they were at the beginning. |
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| Erasmus 1522 Colossians I snapshot |
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| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
Banned!
Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Joplin, MO, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: Creation |
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So sorry, the verses you gave are CREATION:
κτισις 2937
Creation, construction,
production; an
institution.
Ps 104:24
Mk 10:6
13:19
16:15
Rm 1:20,25
8:19?22,39
2Co 5:17
Gal 6:15
Col 1:15,23
Heb 4:13
9:11
1P 2:13
2P 3:4
Rev 3:14
THESE ARE THE VERSES FOR CREATURE:κτισμα 2938
A creation, a creature.
1Ti 4:4
Js 1:18
Rev 5:13
8:9
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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