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heman
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 Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: Begotten God |
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Page 1
The following discussion of the text-critical problem in John 1:18 is reproduced from Bruce M. Metzger, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament (United Bible Societies, 1971), p. 198.
1.18 μονογενης θεός {B}
With the acquisition of P66 and P75, both of which read θεός, the external support of this reading has been notably strengthened. A majority of the Committee regarded the reading μονογενης υιός, which undoubtedly is easier than μονογενης θεός, to be the result of scribal assimilation to Jn 3.16, 18; 1 Jn 4.9. The anarthrous use of θεός (cf. 1.1) appears to be more primitive.
There is no reason why the article should have been deleted, and when υιός supplanted θεός it would certainly have been added. The shortest reading, Ο μονογενής, while attractive because of internal considerations, is too poorly attested for acceptance as the text.
Some modern commentators take μονογενής as a noun and punctuate so as to have three distinct designations of him who makes God known (μονογενής, θεός, ο ων εις τον κόλπον του πατρος).
Which then reads:
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared God."
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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heman
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:25 pm Post subject: Page 2 "Begotten God" continued.... |
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The Codex Vaticanus
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"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Begotten God |
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| heman wrote: | Page 1
...
Which then reads:
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared God." |
| John 1:18 | | No man saw god at any time. The only begotten son, which is in the father's bosom, hath declared him. |
Sounds strangely mysterious that "son" would be removed; since "only begotten" alone leaves too much of a wide perception.
Perhaps the first letter of John can help better discern that:
| 1 John 5:12 | | He that hath the son, hath life: and he that hath not the son of God, hath not life. |
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
Last edited by JAdmin on Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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JAdmin
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Page 2 "Begotten God" continued.... |
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| heman wrote: | The Codex Vaticanus
Jo 1:18 "only begotten God" |
| Code: | | Joh 4:24 God is a spirit, and they that worship him, must honour <worship> him, in spirit and verity. <trouth, or real fidelity of truth> |
Taking into account that there's no credible witnesses in agreement to the rendering "only begotten God" at Jo 1:18; ironically even brings to attention the second letter of John:
| Code: | 2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into <|are come in to|> the world, which confess not that Jesus Christ is como <(as coming, or returning)> in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jo 1:8 Look on yourselves, that we loose not that we have wrought: but that we may have <|receive|> a full reward.
2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth and bideth not <|abideth not|> in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that endureth <|abideth|> in the doctrine of Christ, hath both the father, and the son. |
That of course agrees with:
| John 1:17-19 | | 17For the law was given by Moses, but favour and verity came by Jesus Christ. 18No man saw god at any time. The only begotten son, which is in the father's bosom, hath declared him. 19And this is the record of John: When the jews sent priests, and levites from Jerusalem, to ask him, what art thou? |
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Page 2 "Begotten God" continued.... |
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| JAdmin wrote: | | heman wrote: | The Codex Vaticanus
Jo 1:18 "only begotten God" |
| Code: | | Joh 4:24 God is a spirit, and they that worship him, must honour <worship> him, in spirit and verity. <trouth, or real fidelity of truth> |
Taking into account that there's no credible witnesses in agreement to the rendering "only begotten God" at Jo 1:18; ironically even brings to attention the second letter of John:
| Code: | 2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into <|are come in to|> the world, which confess not that Jesus Christ is como <(as coming, or returning)> in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jo 1:8 Look on yourselves, that we loose not that we have wrought: but that we may have <|receive|> a full reward.
2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth and bideth not <|abideth not|> in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that endureth <|abideth|> in the doctrine of Christ, hath both the father, and the son. |
That of course agrees with:
| John 1:17-19 | | 17For the law was given by Moses, but favour and verity came by Jesus Christ. 18No man saw god at any time. The only begotten son, which is in the father's bosom, hath declared him. 19And this is the record of John: When the jews sent priests, and levites from Jerusalem, to ask him, what art thou? |
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John 1:18 (Amplified Bible)
18No man has ever seen God at any time; [b]the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].(A
Footnotes:
a. John 1:18 James Moulton and George Milligan, The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament.
b. John 1:18 Marvin Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament: This reading is supported by "a great mass of ancient evidence."
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_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: Hear Israel, our Lord God, is one Lord. |
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| Jadmin wrote: | John 1:18 (Amplified Bible)
18No man has ever seen God at any time; the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].(A
Footnotes:
a. John 1:18 James Moulton and George Milligan, The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament.
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Doesn't that go against sound doctrine according to:
1Co 8:5 And though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth (as there be gods many and lords many)
1Co 8:6 but <yet> unto us is there <but> one God, which is the father, of whom are all things, and we in him: and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
No wonder apostle Paul said to the Corinthians:
2Co 11:3 But I fear lest as the serpent beguiled Eve, thorow <|with|> his subtlety, even so your wits should be corrupt from the singleness that is in Christ.
| Heman wrote: |
b. John 1:18 Marvin Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament: This reading is supported by "a great mass of ancient evidence." |
What "great mass of ancient evidence" is he talking about?
And only because there's a "mass" majority agreeing to something, it doesn't automatically make it true either.
(Yea see post Ps. 68:27 DILIGENCIA in reverence to the Sovereign LORd)
Ironically the fact of the matter is that there were likely more ancient false prophets than there were truely devout.
| 2 Peter 2:1-3 | | 1There were false prophets among the people even as there shall be false teachers among you: which privily shall bring in damnable sects, even denying the Lord that hath bought them, and bring on their own heads swift damnation, 2and many shall follow their damnable ways, by which the way of truth shall be evil spoken of, 3and thorow covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you, whose judgment is not far off, and their damnation sleepeth not. |
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Hear Israel, our Lord God, is one Lord. |
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| JAdmin wrote: | | Jadmin wrote: | John 1:18 (Amplified Bible)
18No man has ever seen God at any time; the only begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known].(A
Footnotes:
a. John 1:18 James Moulton and George Milligan, The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament.
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Doesn't that go against sound doctrine according to:
1Co 8:5 And though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth (as there be gods many and lords many)
1Co 8:6 but <yet> unto us is there <but> one God, which is the father, of whom are all things, and we in him: and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
No wonder apostle Paul said to the Corinthians:
2Co 11:3 But I fear lest as the serpent beguiled Eve, thorow <|with|> his subtlety, even so your wits should be corrupt from the singleness that is in Christ.
| Heman wrote: |
b. John 1:18 Marvin Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament: This reading is supported by "a great mass of ancient evidence." |
What "great mass of ancient evidence" is he talking about?
And only because there's a "mass" majority agreeing to something, it doesn't automatically make it true either.
(Yea see post Ps. 68:27 DILIGENCIA in reverence to the Sovereign LORd)
Ironically the fact of the matter is that there were likely more ancient false prophets than there were truely devout.
| 2 Peter 2:1-3 | | 1There were false prophets among the people even as there shall be false teachers among you: which privily shall bring in damnable sects, even denying the Lord that hath bought them, and bring on their own heads swift damnation, 2and many shall follow their damnable ways, by which the way of truth shall be evil spoken of, 3and thorow covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you, whose judgment is not far off, and their damnation sleepeth not. |
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You must have missed the most important part!
Which then reads:
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared God."
1.18 μονογενης θεός {B}
With the acquisition of P66 and P75, both of which read θεός , the external support of this reading has been notably strengthened.
Some modern commentators take ; as a noun and punctuate so as to have three distinct designations of him who makes God known
μονογενής(μονογενής, θεός, ο ων εις τον κόλπον του πατρος).
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_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
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| Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:40 am Post subject: Re: Hear Israel, our Lord God, is one Lord. |
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| heman wrote: |
You must have missed the most important part!
Which then reads:
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared God." |
What is missing is the word son, otherwise it sounds contrary to the expressive style of John:
| Quote: | | 1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the son, the same hath not the father. ([he that knowledgeth the sonne, hath the father also]) |
| Heman wrote: |
1.18 μονογενης θεός {B}
With the acquisition of P66 and P75, both of which read θεός , the external support of this reading has been notably strengthened.
Some modern commentators take ; as a noun and punctuate so as to have three distinct designations of him who makes God known
μονογενής(μονογενής, θεός, ο ων εις τον κόλπον του πατρος). |
Ironically, though unintended in your post due to a lack of semicolon to represent the greek letter ς .. nonetheless brings to attention Strong's Greek number 962 that is not far within John chapter I that implies an interesting corrolation of another John who is the baptiser:
| John 1:28 | | These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John did baptise. |
| Code: | Strong: G962
Pronounc: bay-thab-ar-ah'
Orig: of Hebrew origin H1004 and H5679
Use: Noun Location
ferry-house; Bethabara (i.e. Bethabarah), a place on the Jordan:--Bethabara.
Bethabara = "house of the ford"
1) a place beyond Jordan, where John was baptising. This may correspond to Bethbarah (fords of Abarah), the ancient ford of the Jordan on the road to Gilead
Strong: H1004
Pronounc: bah'-yith
Noun Masculine
probably from 1129 abbreviated; a house (in the greatest variation of applications, especially family, etc.):--court, daughter, door, + dungeon, family, + forth of, X great as would contain, hangings, home(born), (winter)house(-hold), inside(-ward), palace, place, + prison, + steward, + tablet, temple, web, + within(-out).
nm
1) house
1a) house, dwelling habitation
1b) shelter or abode of animals
1c) human bodies (fig.)
1d) of Sheol
1e) of abode of light and darkness
1f) of land of Ephraim
2) place
3) receptacle
4) home, house as containing a family
5) household, family
5a) those belonging to the same household
5b) family of descendants, descendants as organized body
6) household affairs
7) inwards (metaph.)
8) (TWOT) temple
adv
9) on the inside
prep
10) within
Strong: H1129
Pronounc: baw-naw'
a primitive root; to build (literally and figuratively):--(begin to) build(-er), obtain children, make, repair, set (up), X surely.
1) to build, rebuild, establish, cause to continue
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to build, rebuild
1a2) to build a house (ie, establish a family)
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be built
1b2) to be rebuilt
1b3) established (of restored exiles) (fig.)
1b4) established (made permanent)
1b5) to be built up (of childless wife becoming the mother of a family through the children of a concubine)
Strong: H5679
Pronounc: ab-aw-raw'
from 5674; a crossing-place:--ferry, plain (from the margin).
1) ford
Strong: H5674
Pronounc: aw-bar'
a primitive root; to cross over; used very widely of any transition (literal or figurative; transitive, intransitive, intensive, causative); specifically, to cover (in copulation):--alienate, alter, X at all, beyond, bring (over, through), carry over, (over-)come (on, over), conduct (over), convey over, current, deliver, do away, enter, escape, fail, gender, get over, (make) go (away, beyond, by, forth, his way, in, on, over, through), have away (more), lay, meddle, overrun, make partition, (cause to, give, make to, over) pass(-age, along, away, beyond, by, -enger, on, out, over, through), (cause to, make) + proclaim(-amation), perish, provoke to anger, put away, rage, + raiser of taxes, remove, send over, set apart, + shave, cause to (make) sound, X speedily, X sweet smelling, take (away), (make to) transgress(-or), translate, turn away, (way-)faring man, be wrath.
1) to pass over or by or through, alienate, bring, carry, do away, take, take away, transgress
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to pass over, cross, cross over, pass over, march over, overflow, go over
1a2) to pass beyond
1a3) to pass through, traverse
1a3a) passers-through (participle)
1a3b) to pass through (the parts of victim in covenant)
1a4) to pass along, pass by, overtake and pass, sweep by
1a4a) passer-by (participle)
1a4b) to be past, be over
1a5) to pass on, go on, pass on before, go in advance of, pass along, travel, advance
1a6) to pass away
1a6a) to emigrate, leave (one's territory)
1a6b) to vanish
1a6c) to perish, cease to exist
1a6d) to become invalid, become obsolete (of law, decree)
1a6e) to be alienated, pass into other hands
1b) (Niphal) to be crossed
1c) (Piel) to impregnate, cause to cross
1d) (Hiphil)
1d1) to cause to pass over, cause to bring over, cause to cross over, make over to, dedicate, devote
1d2) to cause to pass through
1d3) to cause to pass by or beyond or under, let pass by
1d4) to cause to pass away, cause to take away
1e) (Hithpael) to pass over |
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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heman
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:46 am Post subject: Re: Hear Israel, our Lord God, is one Lord. |
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| JAdmin wrote: | | heman wrote: |
You must have missed the most important part!
Which then reads:
"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared God." |
What is missing is the word son, otherwise it sounds contrary to the expressive style of John:
| Quote: | | 1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the son, the same hath not the father. ([he that knowledgeth the sonne, hath the father also]) |
| Heman wrote: |
1.18 μονογενης θεός {B}
With the acquisition of P66 and P75, both of which read θεός , the external support of this reading has been notably strengthened.
Some modern commentators take ; as a noun and punctuate so as to have three distinct designations of him who makes God known
μονογενής(μονογενής, θεός, ο ων εις τον κόλπον του πατρος). |
Ironically, though unintended in your post due to a lack of semicolon to represent the greek letter ς .. nonetheless brings to attention Strong's Greek number 962 that is not far within John chapter I that implies an interesting corrolation of another John who is the baptiser:
| John 1:28 | | These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John did baptise. |
| Code: | Strong: G962
Pronounc: bay-thab-ar-ah'
Orig: of Hebrew origin H1004 and H5679
Use: Noun Location
ferry-house; Bethabara (i.e. Bethabarah), a place on the Jordan:--Bethabara.
Bethabara = "house of the ford"
1) a place beyond Jordan, where John was baptising. This may correspond to Bethbarah (fords of Abarah), the ancient ford of the Jordan on the road to Gilead
Strong: H1004
Pronounc: bah'-yith
Noun Masculine
probably from 1129 abbreviated; a house (in the greatest variation of applications, especially family, etc.):--court, daughter, door, + dungeon, family, + forth of, X great as would contain, hangings, home(born), (winter)house(-hold), inside(-ward), palace, place, + prison, + steward, + tablet, temple, web, + within(-out).
nm
1) house
1a) house, dwelling habitation
1b) shelter or abode of animals
1c) human bodies (fig.)
1d) of Sheol
1e) of abode of light and darkness
1f) of land of Ephraim
2) place
3) receptacle
4) home, house as containing a family
5) household, family
5a) those belonging to the same household
5b) family of descendants, descendants as organized body
6) household affairs
7) inwards (metaph.)
8) (TWOT) temple
adv
9) on the inside
prep
10) within
Strong: H1129
Pronounc: baw-naw'
a primitive root; to build (literally and figuratively):--(begin to) build(-er), obtain children, make, repair, set (up), X surely.
1) to build, rebuild, establish, cause to continue
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to build, rebuild
1a2) to build a house (ie, establish a family)
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be built
1b2) to be rebuilt
1b3) established (of restored exiles) (fig.)
1b4) established (made permanent)
1b5) to be built up (of childless wife becoming the mother of a family through the children of a concubine)
Strong: H5679
Pronounc: ab-aw-raw'
from 5674; a crossing-place:--ferry, plain (from the margin).
1) ford
Strong: H5674
Pronounc: aw-bar'
a primitive root; to cross over; used very widely of any transition (literal or figurative; transitive, intransitive, intensive, causative); specifically, to cover (in copulation):--alienate, alter, X at all, beyond, bring (over, through), carry over, (over-)come (on, over), conduct (over), convey over, current, deliver, do away, enter, escape, fail, gender, get over, (make) go (away, beyond, by, forth, his way, in, on, over, through), have away (more), lay, meddle, overrun, make partition, (cause to, give, make to, over) pass(-age, along, away, beyond, by, -enger, on, out, over, through), (cause to, make) + proclaim(-amation), perish, provoke to anger, put away, rage, + raiser of taxes, remove, send over, set apart, + shave, cause to (make) sound, X speedily, X sweet smelling, take (away), (make to) transgress(-or), translate, turn away, (way-)faring man, be wrath.
1) to pass over or by or through, alienate, bring, carry, do away, take, take away, transgress
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to pass over, cross, cross over, pass over, march over, overflow, go over
1a2) to pass beyond
1a3) to pass through, traverse
1a3a) passers-through (participle)
1a3b) to pass through (the parts of victim in covenant)
1a4) to pass along, pass by, overtake and pass, sweep by
1a4a) passer-by (participle)
1a4b) to be past, be over
1a5) to pass on, go on, pass on before, go in advance of, pass along, travel, advance
1a6) to pass away
1a6a) to emigrate, leave (one's territory)
1a6b) to vanish
1a6c) to perish, cease to exist
1a6d) to become invalid, become obsolete (of law, decree)
1a6e) to be alienated, pass into other hands
1b) (Niphal) to be crossed
1c) (Piel) to impregnate, cause to cross
1d) (Hiphil)
1d1) to cause to pass over, cause to bring over, cause to cross over, make over to, dedicate, devote
1d2) to cause to pass through
1d3) to cause to pass by or beyond or under, let pass by
1d4) to cause to pass away, cause to take away
1e) (Hithpael) to pass over |
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Sorry, when I posted the image it was not where I wanted it. I failed to move "ς" along with the rest of the image.
However, concerning the actual translation you can compare these images below with the text of P66, P75, the Vaticanus, and WT.
1.18 μονογενης θεός {B}
With the acquisition of P66 and P75, both of which read θεός , the external support of this reading has been notably strengthened.
Scribal Errors in WT
1:3 All through Him was done and without Him was done not even that had been done
(WT)All things were made by it,|the same| and without it,|the same| was made no thing, that made was.{was made.}
1:4 Into Him
(WT) In it|him| was life; And {the} life was the light of men;
Codex Vaticanus (B or 03), (Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Ms. Vat. gr. 1209); We find in this codex the same reading as in P75,P66.
Luke 23:32
To avoid the implication in this text that Jesus was also a criminal, most Greek witnesses have changed the sequence of words to solve the difficulty. Of the modern translations, the Revised Standard Version, the New American Standard Bible and the New International Version and WT, all follow the largest number of manuscripts instead of the stronger support based on antiquity and on internal evidence.
P75, Sinaiticus, Vaticanus = "Ηγοντο δε και ετεροι κακουργοι συν αυτω αναιρεθηναι"
And also other crininals two were led away to be put to death with him.
(WT) 23:32 There were two evil doerst led with him to be slain.
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_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
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Posts: 279
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:14 am Post subject: word is a it |
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| Heman wrote: | | Sorry, when I posted the image it was not where I wanted it. I failed to move "ς" along with the rest of the image. |
The corrolation in the significance of Bethabara is very interesting nonetheless. (& perhaps is even trying to tell the post something.)
| Heman wrote: | However, concerning the actual translation you can compare these images below with the text of P66, P75, the Vaticanus, and WT.
1.18 μονογενης θεός {B}
With the acquisition of P66 and P75, both of which read θεός , the external support of this reading has been notably strengthened.
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What strengtheneth is how the scriptures altogether bring verity to light.
| Isaiah 8:20 | | If any man want light, let him look upon the law and the testimony whether they speak not after this meaning. |
| Isaiah 28:10 | | Command that may be commanded, bid that may be bidden, forbid that may be forbidden, keep back that may be kept back, here a little, there a little. |
| Heman wrote: |
Scribal Errors in WT
1:3 All through Him was done and without Him was done not even that had been done
(WT)All things were made by it,|the same| and without it,|the same| was made no thing, that made was.{was made.}
1:4 Into Him
(WT) In it|him| was life; And {the} life was the light of men;
Codex Vaticanus (B or 03), (Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana, Ms. Vat. gr. 1209); We find in this codex the same reading as in P75,P66.
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Scribal errors foremost pertains to those that messed with the Hebrew, Greek and Latin .. thus as far as WT: he honestly just translated how he was led by the faithful compilation of manuscripts (in Hebrew, Greek and Latin agreement) provided in the sovereign providence of God. And believe we already discussed John 1:1-5, since "word" has no gender in English and is distinctively described with the pronoun "it".
| Heman wrote: |
Luke 23:32
To avoid the implication in this text that Jesus was also a criminal, most Greek witnesses have changed the sequence of words to solve the difficulty. Of the modern translations, the Revised Standard Version, the New American Standard Bible and the New International Version and WT, all follow the largest number of manuscripts instead of the stronger support based on antiquity and on internal evidence.
P75, Sinaiticus, Vaticanus = "Ηγοντο δε και ετεροι κακουργοι συν αυτω αναιρεθηναι"
And also other crininals two were led away to be put to death with him.
(WT) 23:32 There were two evil doerst led with him to be slain.
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| Luke 23:32 | | There were two evil doers led with him to be slain. |
Brings to attention:
| Matthew 26:51-56 | | 51And behold, one of them which were with Jesus, stretched out his hand and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest, and smote off his ear. 52Then said Jesus unto him: Put up thy sword into his sheath. For all they that lay hands on the sword, shall perish with the sword. 53Either thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my father, and he shall give me ([even now]) more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then should the scriptures be fulfilled, for so must it be. 55The same time said Jesus to the multitude: Ye be come out as it were unto a thief, with swords and staves for to take me: daily I sat among you teaching in the temple, and ye took me not. 56All this was done that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled. Then all the disciples forsook him and fled. |
Yea haven't you heard:
| Galatians 3:13 | | Christ hath delivered us from the curse of the law, and was made a cursed for us (for it is written: Cursed is everyone that hangeth on tree) |
Furthermore i just know this:
| 1 Timothy 1:15-17 | | 15This is a true saying, and by all means worthy to be received, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief: 16Notwithstanding unto me was mercy given, that Jesus Christ should first shew on me all long patience, unto the ensample of them which shall in time to come believe on him unto eternal life. 17So then unto God, King everlasting, immortal, invisible, and wise only, be honour and praise for ever and ever Amen. |
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| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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