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JAdmin
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 Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:58 am Post subject: Re: wo |
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| Jadmin wrote: | What edification do the omitions on that old manuscript provide?
According to the gospel accounts in unison, the quoted passage with everything included more precicely gives the whole picture. |
| heman wrote: |
1 IN THE FIRST OF THE SABBATH (this signifies the 1st day of the Sabbath) 1On the morrow after the Sabbath? and other women with them ( not after the Sabbath and It does not say "other women with them")
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The Gospel's unison speaks for itself:
| Matthew 28:1 | | The Sabbath day at even which dawneth the morrow after the Sabbath, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre. |
| Mark 16:1-2 | | 1And when the Sabbath day was past, Mary Magdalen, and Mary Jacobi, and Salome, bought ointments, that they might come and anoint him. 2And early in the morning the next day after the Sabbath day, they came unto the sepulchre, when the sun was risen. |
| Luke 24:1 | | On the morrow after the Sabbath, early in the morning, they came unto the tomb and brought the odours which they had prepared, and other women with them. |
| John 20:1 | | The morrow after the Sabbath day came Mary Magdalene early when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and saw the stone rolled away from the tomb. |
Interesting to note how their day started and ended at sunset. Notwithstanding even in each of the different Gospel account expressions, less or more detail (in this case of timing) does not take away from it's message.
| heman wrote: |
4 in a QUANDARY (they were "amazed" is quite different from in a quandary (perplexed state-confused)
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a perplexed quandry is what sounds confusing to me..
Brings to attention:
2Co 4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair, {in despair: or, altogether without help, or, means}
| heman wrote: |
ATTIRE LIKE FLASHING LIGHTNING (in shining vestures. esqhsiV 2067 Clothing, attire. astr?aptw 797 To flash lightning.) and meaning that the 2 men looked as though they glowed brightly with eminence and would be more significant "than shining vestures".
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Ironic you mention that.. because brings to attention how your manuscript's organization (with it's government powers) persecuted William Tyndale to try stop his work; and in 1525 Anno Domini, of which God spared Tyndale; yea and at that exact time (escaping them like a flash of lightning:) in God's providence the printing press was left at:
| Matthew 22:12 | | and said unto him: Friend, how camest thou in hither, and * hast not on a wedding garment? and he was even speechless. *[til here the text is from Tyndale's Cologne quarto fragment 1525; the text thereafter is from the Worms octavo edition of 1526.] |
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
Last edited by JAdmin on Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:32 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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heman
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: "THE RESURRECTION" |
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COMBINING ALL FOUR GOSPELS, IT APPEARS AS THOUGH THERE ARE SOME MAJOR DIFFERENCES WHICH I HAVE UNDERLINED!!!
In Matthew 28:1 the angel descends from heaven and the stone is rolled back as Mary watches:
Interesting to see the "garments like LIGHTNING" TOO!
Then we add the Guards to the Tomb.
Mary does not see Jesus but is told to go tell the disciples and then they grab His feet and recognize him.
Verse 28 ends by saying "I am with you alway " but no mention of being taken up to heaven.
Mark 16 says the stone was already rolled away. Instead of two men "they" saw a young man. It says Jesus first appeared to Mary.
It ends by saying he was received into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Luke 24 says "they found the stone rolled away "
And "two men stood by them" 24:9 and "returned from the sepulchre" Then Peter looked and departed not knowing what happened.
AND "that Jesus himself drew near, but did not know him.
Then women came saying, that they had "seen visions of angels". AND only after they ate, 24:31 " they knew him.
Luke ends "he departed from them, and was carried up into heaven."
John 20: Says Mary saw the stone rolled away AND that after Peter came"the disciples went away again unto their own home." Then Mary 20:12 and saw two angels clothed in white sitting AND she saw Jesus; "She turned herself, and said unto him: Rabboni which is to say master." Then Jesus relpies "20:17 Jesus said unto her: touch me not", which contradicts "20:27 Than said he to Thomas: put in thy finger here,"
The story goes on with Mary who told the disciples that she had seen the Lord,. AND THEN
came Jesus and stood in the midst, (of them)
AND adds the "FISH" story in the sea of Tiberias and John ends by saying, "I suppose the world could not contain the books that should be written." (NO ASCENSION?)
Matt 28:1 The Sabbath day at even which dawneth the morrow after the Sabbath, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the sepulchre.
28:2 And behold there was a great earthquake. For the angel of the Lord descended from heaven: and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow.
4 For fear of him the keepers were astunned, and became as dead men
7And go quickly and tell his disciples 8 They came and held him by the feet and worshipped him.
28:20 ?And lo, I am with you alway even until the end of the world
Mark 16:1 And when the Sabbath day was past, Mary Magdalen, and Mary Jacobi, and Salome, bought ointments, that they might come and anoint him.
16:2 And early in the morning the next day after the Sabbath day, they came unto the sepulchre, when the sun was risen.
16:4 And when they beheld it, they saw how the stone was rolled away. For it was a very great one,
16:5 and they went into the sepulchre, and saw a young man, sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment, and they were abashed.
16:8 And they went out quickly and fled from the sepulchre. For they trembled and were amazed. Neither said they anything to any man, for they were afraid.
16:9 When Jesus was risen the morrow after the Sabbath day, he appeared first to Mary Magdalen,16:19 So then when the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Luke 24:1 On the morrow after the Sabbath, early in the morning, they came unto the tomb and brought the odours which they had prepared, and other women with them. 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre,
24:4 And it happened, as they were amazed thereat: lo two men stood by them, in shining vestures.
24:8 And they remembered his words, 24:9 and returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all other.
24:10 It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary Jacobi; And other that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles,
24:12 Then arose Peter and ran unto the sepulchre, and stooped in; And saw the linen clothes laid by themself. And departed wondering in himself at that which had happened
24:15 And it chanced, as they communed together, and reasoned, that Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
24:22 Yea and certain women also of our company made us astonied, which came early unto the sepulchre,
24:23 and found not his body. And came saying, that they had seen visions of angels which said that he was alive.
24:30 And it came to pass as he sat at meat with them, he took bread and blessed it and brake it and gave it unto them.
24:31 And their eyes were opened. And they knew him.
24:51 And it came to pass, as he blessed them, he departed from them, and was carried up into heaven.
John 20:1 The morrow after the Sabbath day came Mary Magdalene early when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and saw the stone rolled away from the tomb.
20:6 Then came Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and saw the linen clothes lie,
20:10 And the disciples went away again unto their own home.
20:11 Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: As she wept, she bowed herself into the sepulchre 20:12 and saw two angels clothed in white sitting
20:14 When she had thus said, she turned herself back and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
20:16 Jesus said unto her: Mary. She turned herself, and said unto him: Rabboni which is to say master.
for I have not yet ascended to my father.
20:27 Than said he to Thomas: put in thy finger here, and see my hands, and put forth thy hand and thrust him into my side, and be not without faith: but believe.
20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord,
20:19 The same day at night, which was the morrow after the Sabbath day, when the doors were shut (where the disciples were assembled together for fear of the jews,) came Jesus and stood in the midst, and said to them: peace be with you.
21:1 After that Jesus shewed himself again at the sea of Tiberias. And on this wise shewed he himself.
21:25 There are also many other things which Jesus did: the which if they should be written every one, I suppose the world could not contain the books that should be written. (NO ASCENSION?)
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: "THE RESURRECTION" |
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The point is that less or more detail (in it's perspective) does not take away from it's validity if according to the law and testimony. Besides only because a Gospel account did not mention a particular part (that another account mentioned) doesn't mean that it is questionable.
And seems you may have the two Marys confused..
| Matthew 27:61 | | And there was Mary Magdalene and the other Mary sitting over against the sepulchre. |
| Heman wrote: | | John 20 adds the "FISH" story in the sea of Tiberias and (NO ASCENSION?) |
How about:
| John 13:1 | | Before the feast of ester when Jesus knew that his hour was come, that he should depart out of this world unto the father. When he loved his which were in the world, unto the end he loved them. |
| John 14:16-18 | | 16and I will pray the father, and he shall give you another comforter, that he may bide with you ever, 17which is the spirit of truth whom the world cannot receive, because the world seeth him not, neither knoweth him. But ye know him. For he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come unto you. |
| John 14:28 | | Ye have heard how I said unto you: I go and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would verily rejoice, because I said, I go unto the father. For the father is greater than I. |
| John 16:4-11 | | 4 These things have I told you, that when that hour is come, ye might remember then, that I told you so. These things said I not unto you at the beginning, because I was present with you. 5But now go I my way to him that sent me, and none of you asketh me: whither goest thou? 6but because I have said such things unto you, your hearts are full of sorrow. 7Nevertheless I tell you the truth it is expedient for you that I go away. For if I go not away, that comforter will not come unto you. But if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8And when he is come, he will rebuke the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgement. 9Of sin, because they believe not on me: 10Of righteousness, because I go to my father, and ye shall see me no more: 11And of judgement, because the chief ruler of this world, is judged all ready. |
| Ephesians 4:9-16 | | 9That he ascended: what meaneth it, but that he also descended first into the lowest parts of the earth? 10He that descended, is even the same also that ascended up, even above all heavens, to fulfil all things. 11And the very same, made some Apostles, some Prophets, some Evangelists, some Shepherds, some Teachers: 12that the saints might have all things necessary to work and minister withal, to the edifying of the body of Christ, 13till we everyeachone (in the unity of faith, and knowledge of the son of God) grow up unto a perfect man, after the measure of age which is in the fullness of Christ: 14That we henceforth be no more children wavering and carried with every wind of doctrine, by the wiliness of men and craftiness, whereby they lay a wait for us to deceive us. 15But let us follow the truth in love, and in all things grow in him which is the head, that is to say Christ, 16in whom all the body is coupled and knit together, in every joint, wherewith one ministereth to another (according to the operation as every part hath his measure) and increaseth the body, unto the edifying of itself in love. |
| Jadmin wrote: | | 21:25 There are also many other things which Jesus did: the which if they should be written every one, I suppose the world could not contain the books that should be written. |
Yea, and i perceive everybody alive on earth is like an open book coming short of the holiness of God according to the Law but are able to be safe by obedient faith through the Testimony foretold and fulfilled in the blood of Christ.
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
Last edited by JAdmin on Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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heman
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:41 pm Post subject: SOMETHING FISHY? |
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John tells the FISH story, no one else includes this story.
Mark ends at 16:8 and 16:9-20 is not included .
Never the less giving rise to the character of Christ, it is without doubt that we hope in the resurrection to eternal life!
Howbeit: 1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Jo 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
_________________
"The Singer"
1Ch 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;
1Ch 25:5 All these were the sons of HEMAN, THE KING'S SEER IN THE WORDS OF GOD |
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JAdmin
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: SOMETHING FISHY? |
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| heman wrote: | | John tells the FISH story, no one else includes this story. |
What's your point?
For ensample..
Matthew is the only gospel account that tells the parables of:
Weeds among the wheat 13:24-30
Treasure hidden in a field 13:44 . .
Pearl of great value 13:45, 46
Dragnet 13:47-50 . .
Unmerciful servant 18:23=25
Laborers in the vineyard 20:1-16 . .
Father and two sons 21:28-32
Marriage feast for the king's son 22:1-14 . .
Wise and foolish maidens 25:1-13
The servants and their talents 25:14-30 . .
Separating sheep from goats 25:31-46
And uniquely Mark:
Seed growing silently . 4:26-29 .
Doorkeeper on watch 11:34-37
And uniquely Luke:
Two debtors . . 7:41-43
Good samaritan 10:25-37
Friend at midnight . . 11:5-10
Rich fool 12:16-21
Watchful servants . . 12:35-38
Wise steward 12:42-48
Barren fig tree . . 13:6-9
Guests who made excuses 14:16-24
Lost coin . . 15:8-10
Prodigal son 15:11-32
Dishonest steward . . 16:1-13
Rich man and lazarus 16:19-31
Master and servant . . 17:7-10
Persistent widow 18:1-8
Pharisee and tax collector . . 18:9-14
Ten pounds 19:11-27
And the John Gospel account didn't include any parables, though included two miracles not found in the other accounts:
Changing water into wine 2:1-11
Healing of the nobleman's son . . .. 4:46-54
And many other passages likewise.
| heman wrote: |
Mark ends at 16:8 and 16:9-20 is not included .
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Just because a particular manuscript (that came later on) omited something, doesn't mean that it was not included originally.
Mark 16:9-20 follows the author's style. And moreover the details line up with the other Gospel accounts. Yea such as the Ascension:
| Mark 16:19 | | So then when the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. |
| Luke 24:50-51 | | 50And he led them out into Bethany, and lift up his hands, and blest them. 51And it came to pass, as he blessed them, he departed from them, and was carried up into heaven. |
| heman wrote: |
Never the less giving rise to the character of Christ, it is without doubt that we hope in the resurrection to eternal life!
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Jesu Christ is come in the flesh, was risen in the flesh and bones and will resurrect all likewise.
Yea as Job long agone had proclaimed:
| Job 19:23-29 | | 23O that my words were written, O that they were put in a book: 24would God they were graven with an iron pen in lead or in stone. 25For I am sure, that my redeemer liveth, and that I shall rise out of the earth in the latter day: 26that I shall be clothed again with this skin, and see God in my flesh. 27Yea I my self shall behold him, not with other but with these same eyes. My reins are consumed within me, 28when ye say: Why do not we persecute him? We have found an occasion against him. 29But beware of the sword, for the sword will be avenged of wickedness, and be sure, that there is a judgement. |
| heman wrote: |
Howbeit: 1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Jo 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. |
Purifieth how? even if you are quoting those verses in regards to the physical; is that purification according to worldly religion?
Brings to attention:
| Galatians 2:3-4 | | 3Also Titus which was with me, though he were a greek, yet was not compelled to be circumcised, 4and that because of incomers being false brethren, which came in among others to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage. |
| 1 Corinthians 6:12 | | All things are lawful unto me: but all things are not profitable. I may do all things: but I will be brought under no man's power. |
Of course true purification is according to the spirit:
| 1 Peter 1:22-25 | | 22And forasmuch as ye have purified your souls thorow the spirit, in obeying the truth for to love brotherly without feigning, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23for ye are born a new, not of mortal seed, but of immortal seed, by the word of God which liveth, and lasteth for ever, 24because that all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man is as the flower of grass, the grass is withered, and the flower is faded away, 25but the word of the Lord endureth ever. And this is the word which by the gospel was preached among you. |
| 1 Peter 2:1-2 | | 1Wherefore lay a side all maliciousness, and all guile, and dissimulation, and envy, and all backbiting: 2and as new born babes, desire that reasonable milk which is without corruption, that ye may be grown therein. ([thereby unto salvation]) |
_________________
| Zechariah 4:6 | | He answered, and said unto me: This is the word of the LORD unto Zorobabel, saying: Neither thorow an host of men, nor thorow strength, but thorow my spirit, sayeth the LORD of Hosts. |
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