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Faith Of God • View topic - When was Christ really born?

When was Christ really born?

"whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things pertain to love, whatsoever things are of honest report, if there be any virtuous thing, if there be any laudable thing, (of learning) those same have ye in your mind, Php. 4:8

When was Christ really born?

Postby jadmin » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:50 am

Luke 2:1-8
1It followed in those days: that there went out a commandment from August the Emperor, that all the world should be valued.  2 This taxing was first executed when Syrenus was leftenant in Syria.  3And every man went into his own shire town, there to be taxed.  4And Joseph also ascended from Galilee, out of a city called Nazareth, into Jewry: into the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David  5to be taxed with Mary his wedded wife, which was with child.  6And it fortuned while they were there, her time was come that she should be delivered.  7And she brought forth her first begotten son. And wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them within, in the hostry.  8And there were in the same region shepherds abiding in the field, and watching their flock by night.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Messianic studies bring to attention that December would not of been the time for making such a decree, and neither would it be wise for the Shepherds to take out their sheep in such season. (If you been to Israel you know that the nights there are cold as it is, nevermind during winter. ) Rather the shepherds take out their flock from the field during the midst of October and keep them to protect them against the winter (with it's cold weather and much rain) that approaches.

According to the details given by the Bible, it's cronologically possible to pin point the birth of the real Jesus Christ to the fulfillment of one of the most important feasts of the Old Testament - The Feast of Tabernacles. This Feast is called the Season of Rejoicing, because it will truly be a great joyous celebration when Christ our Lord physically returns to celebrate this great day amongst the people that he saved to be born anew. This feast happens every year at the end of the seventh month (Ethanim) of the judaic calendar, that corresponds to our month of September. It was instituted by the Lord as a memorial so that the people of Israel would remember the pilgrimage through the wilderness where the Lord inhabited the Tabernacle in the midst of the people.
Leviticus 23:39-44
39Moreover in the fifteenth day of the seventh month after that ye have gathered in the fruits of the land, ye shall keep holy day unto the LORD seven days long. The first day shall be a day of rest, and the eighth day shall be a day of rest.  40And ye shall take you the first day, the fruits of goodly trees and the branches of palm trees and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook, and shall rejoice before the LORD seven days.  41And ye shall keep it holy day unto the LORD seven days in the year. And it shall be a law for ever unto your children after you, that ye keep that feast in the seventh month.  42And ye shall dwell in booths seven days: even all that are Israelites born, shall dwell in booths,  43that your children after you may know how that I made the children of Israel dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: for I am the LORD your God.  44And Moses told all the feasts of the LORD unto the children of Israel.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Nehemiah 8:13-18
13And on the next day were gathered together the chief fathers among all the people and the priests and Levites, unto Esdras the scribe, that he should teach them the words of the law.  14And they found written in the law, how that the LORD had commanded by Moses that the children of Israel should dwell in booths in the feast of the seventh month.  15And so they caused it be declared and proclaimed in all their cities, and at Jerusalem, saying: go up unto the mount and fetch Olive branches, and Pine branches, Myrtle branches, Palm branches, and branches of thick trees, to make booths, as it is written.  16And the people went up, and fetched them, and made them booths, every one upon the roof of his house, and in their courts, and in the courts of the house of God, and in the street by the Watergate, and in the street by port Ephraim.  17And all the congregation of them that were come again out of the captivity, made booths, and dwelt therein. For since the time of Jesua the son of Nun unto this day, had not the children of Israel done so, and there was very great gladness.  18And every day from the first day unto the last, read he in the book of the law of God. And seven days held they the feast, and on the eighth day the gathering together, according unto the manner.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible


The priesthood of Levites were devided in twenty four turns and each turn ministered fifteen days; therefore, 24 turns x 15 days = 360 days = 1 year
1 Chronicles 24:1-19
1The division of the sons of Aaron: Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar.  2But Nadab and Abihu died before their father and had no children. And Eleazar and Ithamar were the Priests.  3And David ordered them on this manner: Zadock of the sons of Eleazar and Ahimelek of the sons of Ithamar to be in office by course.  4And there were more mighty heads found of the sons of Eleazar than of the sons of Ithamar. And they divided them into sixteen heads of ancient households of the sons of Eleazar, and eight of the sons of Ithamar.  5And they put them in order by lot, one with another that there should be rulers in the sanctuary and lords before God as well of the sons of Ithamar as of the sons of Eleazar.  6And Semeiah the son of Nathaneel the Scribe of the Levites wrote them before the king and the lords, and before Zadock the priest and Ahimelek the son of Abiathar, and before the ancient heads of the priests and of the Levites: one principal household for Eleazar and one for Ithamar.  7The first lot fell to Jehoiarib. The second to Jedaiah.  8The third to Harim. The fourth to Seorim.  9The fifth to Melciah. The sixth to Miamin.  10The seventh to Hakes. The eighth to Abiah.  11The ninth to Jesua. The tenth to Secaniah.  12The eleventh to Eliasib. The twelfth to Jakim.  13The thirteenth to Huphah. The fourteenth to Isbaab.  14The fifteenth to Belgah. The sixteenth to Emer.  15The seventeenth to Hezir. The eighteenth to Haphzez.  16The nineteenth to Pathahaiah. The twentieth to Jehesekiel.  17The twenty first to Jacin. The twenty second to Gamul.  18The twenty third to Delaiahu. The twenty fourth to Maasiahu.  19This is the order of them in their offices, to come into the house of the LORD according to their manner under Aaron their father, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible

The eighth turn pertained to Abias
1 Chronicles 24:10
The seventh to Hakes. The eighth to Abiah.
- Tyndale and friends Bible

The first turn initiated itself with the first month of the judaic year, the month Abib.
Exodus 12:1-2
1And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying:  2This month shall be your chief month: even the first month of the year shall it be unto you.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Deuteronomy 16:1
Observe the month of Abib, and offer passover unto the LORD thy God. For in the month of Abib, the LORD thy God brought thee out of Egypt by night :
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Exodus 13:4
This day come ye out of Egypt in the month of Abib.
- Tyndale and friends Bible


Let's start with Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist. He was a
priest of the course of Abie (or also said Abia) - the eighth turn. (computed to our month of around June and July)
Luke 1:5-10
5In the time of Herod king of Jewry, there was a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abie. And his wife was of the daughters of Aaron: And her name was Elizabeth.  6Both were perfect before God, and walked in all the laws and ordinances of the Lord that no man could find fault with them.  7And they had no child, because that Elizabeth was barren; And both were well stricken in age.  8 It came to pass, as he executed the priest's office, before God as his course came  9(according to the custom of the priest's office) his lot was to burn odoures. And went into the temple of the Lord,  10and all the multitude of people were without in their prayers while the odoures were a burning.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible


Code: Select all
Lu 1:23 And it fortuned, as soon as the time of his office was out, he departed home into his own house. And after those days,
Lu 1:24 his wife Elizabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying:
Lu 1:25 This wise hath God dealt with me in the days when he looked on me, to take from me the rebuke that I suffered among men.


That being, John was "generated" at the end of the judaic month Tamuz (June) or beginning of the month Av (July). Iesus was "generated" six months after at the end of the month Tevet (December) or beginning of month Shevat (January) according to:
Luke 1:24-38
24his wife Elizabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying:  25This wise hath God dealt with me in the days when he looked on me, to take from me the rebuke that I suffered among men.  26And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,  27to a virgin spoused to a man, whose name was Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary.  28And the angel went in unto her, and said: Hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.  29When she saw him, she was abashed at his saying: and cast in her mind what manner of salutation that should be.  30And the angel said unto her: fear not Mary, thou hast found grace with God.  31Lo: thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bear a child, and shalt call his name Jesus.  32He shall be great, and shall be called the son of the highest. And the Lord God shall give unto him the seat of his father David:  33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of his kingdom shall be none end.  34Then said Mary unto the angel: How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?  35And the angel answered, and said unto her: The holy ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the highest shall overshadow thee. Therefore also that holy thing which shall be born, shall be called the son of God.  36And mark, thy cousin Elizabeth, hath also conceived a son in her old age. And this is the sixth month to her, which was called barren,  37for with God shall nothing be unpossible.  38 Mary said: behold the handmaiden of the Lord, be it unto me even as thou hast said. And the angel departed from her.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible
Notice Jesus was not born yet in December, but was generated in that month. Nine months later, at the end of Tishri (September), when the jews commemorated the Feast of Tabernacles, is when was born Emmanuel, God dwelling with us.

Christ the word of God dwelt amongst us to fulfill:
The Feast of Tabernacles
John 1:14
And that word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw the glory of it, as the glory of the only begotten son of the father, which word was full of grace, and verity.
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Emmanuel (that is God with us)
Isaiah 7:14
And therefore the Lord shall give you a token of himself: Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Emmanuel.
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Matthew 1:23
Behold a maid shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shalt call his name Emmanuel, which is as much to say, by interpretation, as God with us.
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Pascha, in his death and resurrection
Matthew 26:2
Ye know that after two days shall be ester, and the son of man shall be delivered to be crucified.
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Mark 8:31
And he began to declare unto them, how that the son of man must suffer many things, and should be reproved of the seniors and of the high priests and scribes, and should be killed, and after three days arise again.
- Tyndale and friends Bible

1 Corinthians 5:7-8
7Purge therefore the old leaven, that ye may be new dough as ye are sweet bread. For Christ our ester lamb is offered up for us.  8Therefore let us keep holyday, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of maliciousness and wickedness but with the sweet bread of pureness and truth.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Pentecost
Acts 2:1-4
1When the fiftieth day was come, they were all with one accord gathered together in one place.  2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as it had been the coming of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they sat.  3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues, as they had been fire, and it sat upon each of them:  4and they were all filled with the holy ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, even as the spirit gave them utterance.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible
jadmin
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possible correction?

Postby jadmin » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:42 am

Research online by some Jewish believers in Messiah state that depending on when John the Baptist was conceived, according to when his dad started his priesthood turn to serve at the temple; which could be different if counting the turns from a different month starting point other than the first Hebrew month Nissan that would point to a different time viewpoint when the Lord was born.

Luke 1:26-57
26And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,  27to a virgin spoused to a man, whose name was Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary.  28And the angel went in unto her, and said: Hail full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.  29When she saw him, she was abashed at his saying: and cast in her mind what manner of salutation that should be.  30And the angel said unto her: fear not Mary, thou hast found grace with God.  31Lo: thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bear a child, and shalt call his name Jesus.  32He shall be great, and shall be called the son of the highest. And the Lord God shall give unto him the seat of his father David:  33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever, and of his kingdom shall be none end.  34Then said Mary unto the angel: How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?  35And the angel answered, and said unto her: The holy ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the highest shall overshadow thee. Therefore also that holy thing which shall be born, shall be called the son of God.  36And mark, thy cousin Elizabeth, hath also conceived a son in her old age. And this is the sixth month to her, which was called barren,  37for with God shall nothing be unpossible.  38 Mary said: behold the handmaiden of the Lord, be it unto me even as thou hast said. And the angel departed from her.  39 Mary arose in those days, and went into the mountains with haste into a city of Jewry,  40and entered into the house of Zachary, and saluted Elizabeth:  41And it fortuned, as Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe sprang in her belly. And Elizabeth was filled with the holy ghost,  42and cried with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among the women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.  43And whence happeneth this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?  44 Lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe sprang in my belly for joy.  45And blessed art thou that believedst: For those things shall be performed which were told thee from the Lord.  46And Mary said: My soul magnifieth the Lord.  47And my spirit rejoiceth in God my saviour:  48For he hath looked on the poor degree of his handmaiden. Behold now from hence forth shall all generations call me blessed.  49For he that is mighty hath done to me great things, and blessed is his name.  50And his mercy is always on them that fear him thorowout all generations.  51He hath shewed strength with his arm, he hath scattered them that are proud in the imagination of their hearts.  52He hath put Down the mighty from their seats, and hath exalted them of low degree.  53He hath filled the hungry with good things: And hath sent away the rich empty.  54He hath remembered mercy: and hath holpen his servant Israel.  55Even as he promised to our fathers, Abraham and to his seed for ever.  56And Mary abode with her about a three months; And returned home again.  57Elizabeth's time was come that she should be delivered; And she brought forth a son.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible


If its the other way around and John was conceived instead on the sixth month Tishri of the hebrew calendar (Aug-Sep on todays used calendar) ironically around the time of the new Jewish celebrated new year Rosh Hashanna followed by feast of trumpets and day of atonement Yom Kipppur and feast of tabernacles Kukkoth then that would put his birth at around Hannukkah ironically and place the date of Messiah birth at Nissan (Mar-Apr) around the time Passover followed by unleavened bread and first fruits is celebrated
1 Corinthians 15:20-24
20 Now is Christ risen from death, and is become the first fruits of them that slept.  21For by a man came death, and by a man came resurrection of death.  22For as by Adam all die: even so by Christ, shall all be made alive,  23and every man in his own order: The first is Christ, then they that are Christ's at his coming.  24Then cometh the end, when he hath delivered up the kingdom to God the father, when he hath put down all rule, authority, and power.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Luke 2:1-6
1It followed in those days: that there went out a commandment from August the Emperor, that all the world should be valued.  2 This taxing was first executed when Syrenus was leftenant in Syria.  3And every man went into his own shire town, there to be taxed.  4And Joseph also ascended from Galilee, out of a city called Nazareth, into Jewry: into the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David  5to be taxed with Mary his wedded wife, which was with child.  6And it fortuned while they were there, her time was come that she should be delivered.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible


Nevertheless ironically notwithstanding the Emporer at that time was called "August" which rulers at times have tried to change the counting of days as prophecied in the book of Daniel
Daniel 7:25
He shall subdue three kings, and shall speak words against the highest of all: he shall destroy the saints of the most highest, and think, that he may change times and laws. They shall be given under his power, until a time, two times, and a half a time.
- Tyndale and friends Bible

Nevertheless may it serve as a warning for those that stand corrected one way or another
Acts 12:17-23
17 He beckoned unto them with his hand to hold their peace, and told them by what means the Lord had brought him out of the prison. And said: go shew this unto James and to the brethren. And he departed and went into another place.  18As soon as it was day there was no little ado among the soldiers, what was become of Peter.  19When Herod had called for him, and found him not, he examined the keepers, and commanded to depart. And he descended from Jewry to Cesarea, and there abode.  20Herod was displeased with them of Tyre and Sidon. And they came all at once, and made intercession unto Blastus the king's chamberlain, and desired peace, because their country was nourished by the king's land.  21 Upon a day appointed, the king arrayed him in royal apparel, and set him in his seat, and made an oration unto them.  22And the people gave a shout, saying: It is the voice of a God and not of a man.  23And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the honour, and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.  
- Tyndale and friends Bible
jadmin
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Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:07 pm


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